Roger Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 No vote as Freedom Church gets go-ahead for new HQ HEREFORD-based Freedom Church has the go-ahead to turn the city’s former Odeon cinema and night club next door into a new HQ. A related planning application made to Herefordshire Council was approved without being put to the planning committee. Current criteria require councillors or council officers to request that an application is put to committee – no councillor or council officer made such a request for the cinema/club conversion. No objections were raised on planning grounds. Both the cinema and nightclub (formerly Fusion) in Commercial Road have been vacant for over a year. In its application - reported by the Hereford Times in June - the Freedom Church said the site offered the “framework that we are looking for†in re-locating from its current campus – a converted warehouse in Coningsby Street - where services attracted between 280-300 a week. The Coningsby Street site is now under offer as a freehold interest - available with vacant possession - at an asking price of £350,000. In Commercial Road, the Freedom Church proposes the site for a 450 seat auditorium and offices with space for Sunday services, youth work, a parent and child group, and a nursery. Also pitched is the potential to make the site available to other community groups. A statement accompanying the planning application said the Freedom Church was: “committed to maintaining our presence in the heart of our city and developing strong links and relationships with local businesses, other churches, voluntary organisations, schools and communities across the cityâ€. Founded in the county 26 years ago, the Freedom Church has experienced significant growth. The past seven years alone have seen the establishment of international campuses in Belgium, Uganda and Cambodia - with two more planned in India and South Africa - to complement a presence in Swansea, Cardiff and Worcester. Most recently, the church converted a former hostel in Holme Lacy Road, Hereford, to add to its local property portfolio. Planning approval - granted as a change of use last month - gives the Freedom Church three years to make the move happen. Other than the statutory period for implementation, no conditions were considered necessary. Hereford Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkester Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Wow... They seem to be free to take over any building, move anywhere and acquire anything that takes their fancy. So there is the old Plumb Centre building they were gifted now for sale - are they getting all that profit? There it the Marion fathers house(?) now the cinema AND night club?! They'll be the big property owners before we know it (if they're not already.) Of course, it's all in the name of Jeebus, so... There's definitely nothing to be concerned about, is there?? They need some famous faces to give them a proper legit boost like the Scientologists have Tom and John... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Boggs Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 They need some famous faces to give them a proper legit boost like the Scientologists have Tom and John... Perhaps they could give a more prominent role to one or two councillors. After all, politics is showbiz for ugly people, and local politics is uglier than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Clarkester who gifted the old Plumb Centre to FC? As I was writing I think I remembered was it HC as "hush money" because they were being squeezed out by the OLM. Pete Boggs I thought some of the Councillors figured very prominently in the FC family tree already. Some very interesting comments being made on the Facebook Hereford Times page and it looks like the Welsh have FC's number judging by comments on the HT page I hope the day doesn't come when HC wished they had followed their example. I wonder what it is about FC that sparks so much interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Someone has left a comment on HT website with this making up a part of that comment Presence in Cardiff and Swansea Gwent Police & Dyfed Powys think their a paedophille ring and a cult and vehemently refuse any planning applications their banned from all the university campusses under POVA. Must admit have not heard that about the police in wales thinking FC are a pedophile ring before?…if it is true you'd think they'd be investigating FC about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megilleland Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 This site from 2012 makes comment on the Freedom Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I suppose the real question to be asked is whether their planning application was outside of any rules? I don't think it was. The old cinema was clapped out and has been replaced by something apparently better - although I haven't been to the new one. That leaves us with the square featureless building that is the defunct 'Fusion' Nightclub. Anyone bothered by the loss of that space being used as a Club could have tried to get it listed as an Asset Of Community Value. No one did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragwert Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 A long but interesting read about FC Religious group The Freedom Church has been forbidden from operating in campus premises after the group was accused of targeting vulnerable students, in particular first years. Suspicions were raised when a concerned parent contacted the director of the university’s Student Services Kevin Child worried that their child had been inducted into a cult. More concerns were voiced by an anonymous student in early October who contacted Mr Child to discuss his own experiences in dealing with the Freedom Church. He said: “After attending for a period of eight months I started to have my suspicions as I climbed up in the leadership tree [a tiered system used by the Freedom Church to categorise members].†The church uses a profiling system in which existing members approach new members as friends and use conversation to collect personal details to use to target them in future. “I was on a VIP team set to make first time guests feel welcome. My aim was to make a lasting impression to attempt to get them to return the following week. I did this every week for six months and had a team of people working with me to do so. “I started to view things differently and noticed how new attendees were being treated with flattery and were being profiled as they came in so somebody who had more in common with them could talk to them to make them feel more accepted,†he said. Immediate investigations followed which confirmed that previous inquiries by other organisations had recognised the church group as exhibiting cultic behaviours. The Freedom Church had already been prohibited from operating on campuses across Cardiff University because of fears over the group’s aggressive operating methods. After the information emerged, the Freedom Church was prevented from continuing meetings in Swansea University campus buildings. “As part of my duty of care, I have to investigate anything that’s causing concern over the wellbeing of our students,†said Mr Child. “Students that have been associated with The Freedom Church, bright young individuals who have been taken in, have been damaged when they realise how they’ve been indoctrinated. “Feeling deceived and disappointed in themselves not just for being convinced personally but also for involving friends -a big part of their religion is campaigning to convert others. “Furthermore when they leave that community, they leave feeling bereft having lost what felt like their family and friends,†said Child. Another student who has left the church said: “I never really was completely happy with it but liked the people so sort of ignored any doubts I had and just dismissed them at first.†“I do honestly believe that the people that go to Freedom are nice and I have made friends there but they can be a little obsessive over your life. I think you just ignore it because it’s nice to think they actually care about how you are as friends and nothing more. But I think the issue is that they’ve overstepped the mark of being interested in someone’s life and desperately trying to dictate it,†she said. The Freedom Church flyered campus soon after their removal with leaflets, particularly targeting first-years. Posters were also put up around campus without consent, however security has since removed all unauthorised materials. Freedom Church materials, their posters, videos, website design and terminology are designed to appeal to a young audience using images and videos of youthful individuals, including modern music and culture. Part of what caused concern was their limited demographic. “The fact that they seem to target young and reasonably wealthy people rather than just anyone causes concern,†said Kevin Child. Another cause of concern was instruction from Freedom Church leaders to younger members of the congregation to bypass the advice of family and friends and come straight to them for relationship advice. The church encourages its young members to marry within the church and to marry young. Two Swansea university students who are both members of the Freedom Church were married this year but refused to comment. The Freedom Church regularly asks for donations from the congregation. A former member of the church said: “Money seems to be invested more in the main Hereford centre than the people in the church or the community surrounding it – something that I felt uncomfortable with as the movement seemed quite focused on its own ambitions.†The church also asks its members to pay £1500 to pay for ‘The academy’, a paid course that on completion allows you to climb further up the leadership tree. “A member of the Cardiff Freedom Church said: “I joined the church a while ago. I was quite depressed and thought it was the thing to help me. It really wasn’t! I noticed when I didn’t attend the Catalyst meetings, I was pressured to and constantly asked why! I felt I was judged a lot. I didn’t think paying £1500 for the academy was good value for money too.†When it was no longer possible to hold meetings on Campus, the Freedom Church relocated to the Guildhall. However as a result of close inter-agency partnership working both locally and nationally, the organisation has had its Guildhall booking suspended. Our anonymous source said: “It’s all flattery and false words. I feel embarrassed as I was a key communicator for making new people feel welcome and I wanted to alert other students to this matter as I want them to be aware. Our other anonymous source said: “They all said the same phrases: ‘Wow’ ‘Come on’ and ‘Yes Lord’ and if you didn’t say these things clearly you weren’t showing the ‘right’ kind of dedication, which I never liked but again just ignored as I didn’t really want to see it because then I would have to admit I wasn’t completely comfortable with it. “I am embarrassed to say I was so easily almost ‘brainwashed’ into not noticing anything I didn’t like as I was just so blinded by how nice they were.†A Swansea University spokeswoman said: “Swansea University is committed to the protection of its students through its Safeguarding Policy and the UK PREVENT Agenda. “We have also been sharing our concerns with other organisations in the Swansea area to ensure that our students are protected from organisations such as the Freedom Church when outside of the campus as well.†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 What is it about FC an article in the local rag and 5 or 6 hours later it has raised so much public interest. Are we envious of their ability to make zillions/their ability to con people/are we are afraid of our own vulnerability/or are we just fascinated by them and secretly despise them for their success. Perhaps they are like marmite. Channel 5 Monday night I think Scientology and Jehovahs Witness that might answer a few questions or pose some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yeah .... I'm aware of all that info ragwert and they are, in my opinion, a cult .... but being a cult doesn't breach planning rules. I also think there is a Jeremy Corbyn Cult being formed at the moment. That is not against different rules. Just a different way of going about things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megilleland Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I see the local Jersey Freedom Church also bought a cinema. Even their church has been involved in dubious pratices. Coincidently Wiltshire Police force who have been called in to look at allegations concerning Ted Heath were also the police force called in to investigate the Jersey Child abuse accusations which involved the removal of a Jersey minister and a Jersey police chief in 2008. "After that illegal suspension of the Jersey Police Chief was initiated by the Jersey authorities with the full backing and endorsement of the London authorities, a UK Police Force – Wiltshire – was called-in to run what was a manifestly fake, trumped-up, corrupt “disciplinary investigation†against the good Police Chief Graham Power. In spite of taking two years, and consuming about £2 million – the Wiltshire Police “investigation†failed – failed wholly and remarkably – to find so much as one single thing – not even the smallest trivial negative conclusion they could offer-up that had any chance at all of sticking as some kind of “disciplinary / conduct†charge against Mr Power". Funny how one internet search leads to another linked topic. Here is another which should give cause for concern, The Movement to Put a Church in Every School Is Growing - How evangelicals are taking advantage of publicly funded spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Funny how one internet search leads to another linked topic. Here is another which should give cause for concern, The Movement to Put a Church in Every School Is Growing - How evangelicals are taking advantage of publicly funded spaces. On reflection the very impressive hymn book that was hoisted up for morning assembly at Scudamore School when I attended in the 70's looks quite harmless now! It was normally accompanied by average piano playing .... Or less than average piano playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenda Powell Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Herefordshire Council has broken all their planning rules allowing this application to go through. Having been vice chair of planning a few years ago, you cannot do that, the correct procedure is the planning officer contacts the local ward councillor in this case Cllr Len Tawn, to ask for any comments, it is then discussed whether it should go to the planning committee or dealt with by officers under delegated powers. At that point the Cllr can object to the officer making the decision it has then got to go before the planning committee, and councillors on that committee it is then debated by any councillor(s) and the decision is then made by a show of hands, for or against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Herefordshire Council has broken all their planning rules allowing this application to go through. Having been vice chair of planning a few years ago, you cannot do that, the correct procedure is the planning officer contacts the local ward councillor in this case Cllr Len Tawn, to ask for any comments, it is then discussed whether it should go to the planning committee or dealt with by officers under delegated powers. At that point the Cllr can object to the officer making the decision it has then got to go before the planning committee, and councillors on that committee it is then debated by any councillor(s) and the decision is then made by a show of hands, for or against. The thing is Glenda they have 3 Tory councillors within the council so this could of been a cut & dry deal done some time ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenda Powell Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Cambo, yes there are people from FC holding officer positions as well within the council, and the majority of the planning committee are Conservative, that doesn't make the decision right. Herefordshire Council is a law unto themselves. If it was someone elses application that would be a different matter. In the past I have sat for over an hour debating just one application and the wrong decision was made by the committee, the person concerned took it to appeal and won on that occasion costing the council a lot of money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Herefordshire Council has broken all their planning rules allowing this application to go through. Having been vice chair of planning a few years ago, you cannot do that, the correct procedure is the planning officer contacts the local ward councillor in this case Cllr Len Tawn, to ask for any comments, it is then discussed whether it should go to the planning committee or dealt with by officers under delegated powers. Who says that hadn't been done? It's not mentioned in Bill Tanner's article. He just says the application wasn't referred to the planning committee. I'm more interested in whether this application should have gone to the committee. If it should have then perhaps someone could suggest some grounds as to why it should have. Having sat on the committee Glenda you seem to be as well placed as anybody to suggest some part of the application that should have been followed through further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Cambo, yes there are people from FC holding officer positions as well within the council, and the majority of the planning committee are Conservative, that doesn't make the decision right. Herefordshire Council is a law unto themselves. If it was someone elses application that would be a different matter. In the past I have sat for over an hour debating just one application and the wrong decision was made by the committee, the person concerned took it to appeal and won on that occasion costing the council a lot of money! I agree Glenda it does not make it right but what can be do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aylestone Voice Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I don't really care about the morals etc. behind the FC but the planning application was not dealt with incorrectly. Glenda implies that the ward member was not consulted - if you look at the officer report in the online case file you will see that he was and raised no objection. If he did not request it to go to Planning Committee then it was correctly dealt with by Officers. Also to imply that other council officers who may or may not be connected to FC had some sinister involvement in the decision to grant planning permission obviously cannot be proved but in my experience it is complete tosh. Just suggest something on the internet and it becomes the truth! Nobody objected to the application and it does not breach planning policy. What better use could there be for the building than some quasi religious group - short of demolition and redevelopment. Certainly those who live in the area are now having much quieter nights with the noise and abuse having disappeared. (discounting B47 when he leaves the Commie). I have attended planning committee on occasions and it grieves me to say that I don't recall any of GVP's contributions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I don't really care about the morals etc. behind the FC but the planning application was not dealt with incorrectly. Glenda implies that the ward member was not consulted - if you look at the officer report in the online case file you will see that he was and raised no objection. If he did not request it to go to Planning Committee then it was correctly dealt with by Officers. Also to imply that other council officers who may or may not be connected to FC had some sinister involvement in the decision to grant planning permission obviously cannot be proved but in my experience it is complete tosh. Just suggest something on the internet and it becomes the truth! Nobody objected to the application and it does not breach planning policy. What better use could there be for the building than some quasi religious group - short of demolition and redevelopment. Certainly those who live in the area are now having much quieter nights with the noise and abuse having disappeared. (discounting B47 when he leaves the Commie). I have attended planning committee on occasions and it grieves me to say that I don't recall any of GVP's contributions Av I never expected the planning not to go through as there was no reason for it not to get granted but I'm also not familiar with the process of why or why not that it did not go to committee so thanks for clearing that up! On whether this is a good move? then for FC & the owners it is…but only time will tell if it will be for the locals or not? as there had been a number of complaints about noise in conningsby street also one of the response in favour of the PA was from a lady who's son lives by the conningsby places & she was glad because of all the noise & anti social behaviour going on there?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aylestone Voice Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Cambo the problem in Coningsby street was that they had live music in a building with paper thin walls. I have never heard music coming out of either the cinema or the nightclub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Cambo the problem in Coningsby street was that they had live music in a building with paper thin walls. I have never heard music coming out of either the cinema or the nightclub. That's fair enough AV but they where there long enough,so why didn't they get it sound proofed why didn't HC make them do it if they knew they where causing distress to there neighbours?…it's not like they didn't have the money to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Well whatever your viewpoint it was a clever move because now they have a big site right smack bang in the centre of town close to the college's, the station and of course the potential university project. Once the branding is complete and their gatekeepers are readied, please don't be surprised to see them on the front steps of the cinema especially at " chucking out time".....that's when the college's close for the day and the young walk the walk to town etc and not when the commercial crew are thrown out in the small hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 A comment over on HT webpage by littlewhitebull said FC have reregistered as a charity checked it out & they have 1st June this year why would they do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Cambo they may have changed the name. Were they Freedom Church Hereford on their previous registration as a charity? Or perhaps they have increased their scope for good works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Preece Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Well whatever your viewpoint it was a clever move because now they have a big site right smack bang in the centre of town close to the college's, the station and of course the potential university project. Once the branding is complete and their gatekeepers are readied, please don't be surprised to see them on the front steps of the cinema especially at " chucking out time".....that's when the college's close for the day and the young walk the walk to town etc and not when the commercial crew are thrown out in the small hours! Perfect location for them to harass students Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aylestone Voice Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 You all seem to assume that the students are all so gullible that they will be taken in by the FC and that in the very near future we will have bands of automatons marching into town spreading evil. Credit young people with a bit more sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 You all seem to assume that the students are all so gullible that they will be taken in by the FC and that in the very near future we will have bands of automatons marching into town spreading evil. Credit young people with a bit more sense Sorry AV your wrong..They are a target audience and having worked at the Singleton Hospital in Swansea I can assure you that the university down there has had major concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Preece Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 You all seem to assume that the students are all so gullible that they will be taken in by the FC and that in the very near future we will have bands of automatons marching into town spreading evil. Credit young people with a bit more sense I believe I used the word harass not gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 A lot of us know our own mind long before we ever get to college or university but a fare number don't. It's a time expand our knowledge, crossing over the boundaries of the must have requirements of basic education which is why we have places of learning that offer choice and its also the reason why we educate at this time as the mind is open to receiving! There are at least two universities that have expressed concerns about their presence on campus and that speaks for itself because here we have "places of learning" failing to acknowledge the presence of another organisation who in theory are merely wishing to educate? Why would that be unless they genuinely thought there was an ulterior motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 You all seem to assume that the students are all so gullible that they will be taken in by the FC and that in the very near future we will have bands of automatons marching into town spreading evil. Credit young people with a bit more sense No they are not all gullible AV but you can bet that FC will identify the ones who are & then target them? I also think It will be the younger members who will be task with enticing the students into FC fold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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