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Freedom Church Back In The News.


dippyhippy

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Interesting also is that the role has been filled so quickly -they don't usually have people lining up to fill these up there roles.  Unless of course the new person is a friend of a friend - a case perhaps of not what you know but who you know in HC

 

These roles are fairly niche I think. To get a 3 Month Contract you must surely be doing the same sort of job previously at a similar pay grade? Which for this is 59k - 65k .... 

 

With no vast pool of experience/qualifications to select from then the new person may well have had contact with the old person professionally. Just a guess as these authorities shift kids' all around the Country. 

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According to Wikipedia, 95% of Cambodians, are practising Buddhists. Worldwide, there are 350 million practising Buddhists.

 

As a people, they have religion and spirituality, and Buddhism has been the religion of this country for thousands of years. Some sources place it's origin as early as the 3rd century BC.

 

Why do Freedom Church feel the need to "convert" folks to their idea of what is the "right" God??

 

Read The Three Signs Of Being.

          The Four Noble Truths.

          The Noble Eightfold Path.

 

This is truly enlightening as a guide - should you want one - as to how to lead your life.

 

And in my opinion, a much preferred alternative to what Freedom Church are peddling.

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Last Thursday freedom church sent 8 people lead by Joshua Aaron Cooke out to Siem Reap in Cambodia to there church there you'd think that FC being a registered charity that that is what they would be doing???......helping the sick the weak & the poor?

 

But it would appear that what they are really out there for is a recruitment drive on the locals??

 

post-991-0-58495800-1438620522_thumb.jpg

 

https://instagram.com/p/5173eNwz09/

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Very irresponsbile of the parents to encourage these kids and let's face it they are kids out to these countries on a religious recruitment drive.

 

I wonder how long it will be before FC adopt this little old app to get even more of people's money into their "charitable work".

 

 

 

New Tithing APP Just Made It Easier To Give Pastor HIS MONEY!tumblr_inline_nsij8aGfCW1ss6hjj_400.jpg

PimpPreacher.com New Orleans Bureau 08/03/2015

If you hated Tithing before then you may want to stop reading this article right now, you will really hate the 10% Principal after reading this. Pastors are now promoting an APP for Tithing! The art of pimping a congregation in this age of face developing technology is a breeze, now that members can send a pastor “His†money directly from their cell phones. 

The App was by a company called  Tithe.ly and their primary focus is to assist all of those Tithe Addicted Pastors get their expected donation as quickly as possible. The gullible members who sign up for this app can also select  the Automated Giving  option so that their credit card could be charged automatically every month or week on a specified date.

And it gets worse than that!

The App also has what’s called a Beacon feature that alerts the member’s cell phone the moment they enter the church, and sends them a text message that reads: 

“Welcome to [your church name]! Would you like to give? Today… [insert your message here].â€

If it wasn’t for the Jesus part of it all, I couldn’t say I blame the Pastors for trying to push an App like this on their members. If a grown man who has worked 60 long hours per week is stupid enough to give 10% of his before taxed income to a Pastor who has sat at home watching The Word Network most of the week – then there is nothing I could possible say to change that. 

Here is what I will say

There is nowhere in scripture where it records Jesus paying a Tithe nor has Jesus ever ordered Christians to pay tithes. Over 98% of the places Jesus actually delivered sermons were in settings outside of traditional churches / synagogues, therefore tithes were not necessary. 

The only time Tithes are necessary is when a group of Believers decide to have “church†in the complete opposite way Christ had church during his time on earth. That’s why in 2015 there’s now an App for that!

 

Please check out our APP called â€œThe Lies That Tricked You Into Tithing.â€

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Shame the Cambodian traffic police don't seem to be on the case.

I'm not saying that this is the case here with FC?…but in some counties all it takes is a bribe or two to the local law enforcement & they will leave you alone?…so it would not surprise me if indeed that is what FC are doing so as the Cambodian police turn a blind eye to there activities???

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I'm not saying that this is the case here with FC?…but in some counties all it takes is a bribe or two to the local law enforcement & they will leave you alone?…so it would not surprise me if indeed that is what FC are doing so as the Cambodian police turn a blind eye to there activities???

Tithe money well spent no doubt!

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Can't remember if someone said that the FC were looking at the old cinema and nightclub  in Commercial street as a new premise. Any way, as I went past at 1930 last night there were 3 vehicles being loaded with all manner of stuff from the nightclub.

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Can't remember if someone said that the FC were looking at the old cinema and nightclub  in Commercial street as a new premise. Any way, as I went past at 1930 last night there were 3 vehicles being loaded with all manner of stuff from the nightclub.

 

Yea they got the keys on Saturday I believe?…I wonder what will happen to the dance floor in there & the other fixing fittings stuff will they sell it off?

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If people who spend oodles of money tithing gave that money to proven transparent charities this country would be a little bit better.

 

Anybody who reads this forum think carefully before tithing and read this -

 

There exists a section of scripture that most Believers have never heard of or read in their lives, and that is not by accident. One of the harsh side effects of yielding your entire biblical education to a “Pastor Dude†is you run the risk of learning in a controlled environment – an environment with monetary motives. If you were to really sit down and read Deuteronomy 14:22-29 it would shatter everything you have been told about tithing and church – in just a few short sentences. I now understand why Pastors skip this chapter, because to teach it would be the end of church as you know it. 

 

Deut 14 22:-29 lays down the law when it comes to paying tithes, how to pay tithes, and when we should eat the tithe. Yes – I said EAT THE TITHE! If we were to really practice Tithing as practiced during the Old Testament, then all of us would be fully aware that Tithes were consumable goods. Even if the consumable goods were converted into currency back then – under the command of God that currency had to reconvert back into an edible item.

In Deuteronomy Fourteen we also find the Duration of TITHES – and a mobile home trailer God called his Temple - that never remained in the same place for long. Let’s read Deuteronomy out aloud together because you’re only 3 minutes away from Tithing Emancipation.

 


22 “You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year.

23 And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

24 But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the LORD your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the LORD your God has blessed you,

25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses.

26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household.

27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.

28 “At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates.

29 And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

If They Build It You Will Pay For It!

How could this be when the church concept that we recognize today takes place in a fixed building, tithing is cash money, and members pay tithes every week. To answer that question honestly is the beginning of wisdom when it comes to “Church†and the end of “Church†as we know it. The reason I can boldly make that statement with all confidence is because the current concept of church cannot survive without a steady flow of counterfeit tithes.

The only church that can survive without Tithing is the church that Our Lord Jesus Christ spoke of – The First Church of You.

This is why I stand firm on the premise that it is impossible for you ‘go to church.’  You are a Breathing Church, and there is no physical way you can safely go into to yourself.  When Jesus looked at Peter and said upon this rock I will build my church – nothing in that sentence had anything to do with a brick and mortar building. I know this to be true because whenever there is an earthquake the main cause of death is the subsequent weight of the tumbling building. Jesus never built a brick building on Peter because the weight of it alone would have killed Peter. Jesus built “HIS CHURCH†in Peter.

It is the cost of maintaining these ‘Church Buildings’ that is keeping the real work of Christ from going forward in great numbers.

Jesus never taught us how to Tithe – Catholicism taught us how to tithe. The ministry of Jesus has no use for tithing, such is not the case with the ministry of your Pastor. Tithing is the only thing that keeps church buildings in an upright position, and serves as the underwriter for Pastors who were never called by  Jesus. 

The reason Deuteronomy 14 is never taught or touched in church is because to teach it, would collapse the buildings."

Amen and Goodnight

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Because there is tax relief on donations to charities/because they have been totally sucked in by a money grabbing greedy so called charity/because they were lent money from FC to set up their company and feel they owe something in return/because they truly believe that FC are fundamentally good people/because ............   

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Looking at two further organisations - note spellings:

 

 
Hope City Church
Union Walk
Hereford, HR1 2EP
 
According to this plan they have an auditorium of 221 seats. Are they still there? I have never noticed them before.
 
With a possible 450 seat auditorium in the approved Freedom Church application is Hereford to become a pilgrimage and convention centre?
 
When I typed in Vennture this came up:
 
Vennture 2020 ambition is to become ‘the natural first choice provider of volunteer led social impact’. It wants to develop 6 hubs across Herefordshire supported by £3m revenues, £5m assets and equip 2,500 people with skills and thinking to help other people – including those most vulnerable. 
 
I understand that Herefordshire Council are "out sourcing families to Vennture4Family using a Family Pastor in a scheme called Herefordshire Families First. A friend has a relative who is being "helped", but they get the feeling that V4F are coercing them into doing things, I think they have no lawful authority to do.
 
Anyone had dealings with V4F?
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I found more on their Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/4Family/433353710157119

 

" 23 April: Hereford Vennture4Family has been set up to work in a very similar way to how Yeovil4Family (Y4F) operates, ie working with other agencies such as their local council, the police & school. They are very excited because they took their first family referral last week.Good news indeed for 4Family, Hereford Vennture4Family & most of all, the family referred because that family will get wonderful input as a result the 4Family motivations of ........hope, transformation, community, equality, & inclusivity.
They are the first of many families there waiting to be referred
."

 

It must be very tempting for Councils to save money by using well-meaning volunteers like this, but what controls are there, how adeqate is the training?  What do trained social workers think about this? Isn't there a big risk of a future scandal of some sort?

 

"17 March: Yeovil4Family.........The beginning. Part one
Upon being employed by Yeovil Community Church as the Children's and Families Leader in September 2008, Rachel Dyer became aware that some of the families we came into contact with through church ran children's groups were in crisis - whether as a result of divorce, domestic abuse, drug and alcohol misuse that was affecting their parenting and families, whose children were the subject of child protection plans. They were at risk o
f having their children removed.
Families began to talk to Rachel because they felt they had nowhere to go. They needed someone to listen to them, value them, encourage them and help them to work out a plan for their lives. Rachel began to support some families more intensely, utilising the skills gained as a family law solicitor and the knowledge from her Early Years Professional Status (EYPS) qualification
."

 

"19 March: Yeovil4Family.............The Beginning. Part two
Through conversation with a social worker, Rachel was asked if she knew of other people available to support other families that she was working with. So the idea was born to train and equip volunteers to support and mentor parents and carers. To walk alongside them by helping families to help themselves.
Despite searching for an 'off the shelf' training model to use, other than Home Start, which was an expensive and more rest
rictive option that didn't match her needs,nothing else seemed available.
Rachel formed a working group researching the idea, the model and best method of training a group of volunteer mentors. As Rachel developed the plan, she shared it with Children's Social Care in order to complement statutory works.
Finally a programme was developed and Rachel invited people from local churches who had a heart and passion for families to share her vision with them.
In May 2011 Rachel embarked on the first training course of 12 candidate Family Mentors from five different local churches. Yeovil4Family was born
."

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All these charities seem to tie into the Cinnamon Network, part of David Cameron's Big Society and the transformation of our public services. Matt Bird is the torch bearer of this operation and his profile shows his route along this path to seek our salvation!

 

I like the banner at the bottom of the Cinnamon website "To serve the Nation". Doesn't seem or sound right to me.

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I found more on their Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/4Family/433353710157119

 

It must be very tempting for Councils to save money by using well-meaning volunteers like this, but what controls are there, how adeqate is the training?  What do trained social workers think about this? Isn't there a big risk of a future scandal of some sort?

 

I understand that these family pastors are introduced through the council social services resulting them calling unannounced on families and that the sole purpose is to get them to sign up and give their consent for all their family information to be made availble to all the other agencies who may be able to help them - ie the county council, the district council, any of the NHS services and practioners, any of the education, training, employment or career agencies and providers, the Police, the Probation Service or Youth offending Team, Housing Association landlords - basically any one at all.

 

And all this is led by Herefordshire Council who came out at No 5 in the top 10 of councils whose data security was 'shockingly lax' and where sensitive personal information has been lost or stolen from councils in thousands of cases, research suggests.

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I expect FC are kicking themselves that they haven't got in on this one.  There is no denying that both FC and Vennture do do admirable work,  But the shame of it all is that they have to mix religion in with it all and then make their particular charity a money making exercise.  Once a charity starts to make money it no longer is a charity it becomes a company and taxes become owing.  

 

I assume that HC are funding Herefordshire Families First  Am I happy paying my council tax to fund a religious charity I don't think I am comfortable with it. Charitable giving should be a personal choice and I know which ones I would happily donate to.

 

There is a time and place for religion and this kind of charity work is not that place. 

 

Now that Bill Tanner has left the HT we will longer have the incisive reporting that we have become accustomed to.  Hereford Voice will have to fill the gap and to publish this shocking report on lost or stolen personal information within the Council.  What is being done about this and who is responsible for sorting this out.  God knows there are people in HC who are certainly paid enough to sort it out.  Perhaps HT will pick the story up from these pages and do a little further investigation. 

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Now that Bill Tanner has left the HT we will longer have the incisive reporting that we have become accustomed to.  Hereford Voice will have to fill the gap and to publish this shocking report on lost or stolen personal information within the Council.  What is being done about this and who is responsible for sorting this out.  God knows there are people in HC who are certainly paid enough to sort it out.  Perhaps HT will pick the story up from these pages and do a little further investigation. 

Herefordshire Council has a dismal reputation when it comes to info breaches. I know personally of one case where highly sensitive data

relating to a young person was improperly disclosed to several parties. Think HC might have copped a hefty fine for that

one.

 

Re: the Freedom Church issue, I'm wondering if this is more Private Eye Rotten Boroughs material than something for the

local rag to mull over and then ignore.

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Families First, is the new name for The Troubled Families Programme. This is a national government initiative.

 

There has been a thread discussing this. Type in "Emergency Grants and Loans" into the HV search box.

 

(Pete Boggs...I couldn't agree more! Perhaps Channel 4's Despatches investigation team would be interested????)

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Interesting to read the history of vennture

 

 

Vennture is building on the legacy of its founder the Rev. John Venn. Venn moved to Herefordshire in 1833 establishing a number of radical social pioneering projects that in 1856 culminated in the ‘Hereford City Mission’. Hereford City Mission was one of many initiatives that Venn, vicar of St. Peter’s, undertook with his sister Emillia. Others included:

Feeding the poor the Venns built a The Corn Mill

Opening a soup kitchen and acquiring garden allotments to allow people to grow their own food.

Opening a sick person’s dispensary and public baths.

Building a model farm, pioneering building houses with gardens and invested a great deal of energy in developing earth toilets to fix sanitation.

Building a school and large children’s home.

Encouraging the development of Hereford’s public library

Employing individuals to visit struggling families in their homes to support them and encourage their well-being.

 

 

Together the Venn's initiatives transformed the plight of Hereford’s struggling families in 19th century Hereford and their legacy of iconic buildings shapes the city today.

 

 

The present day

Today Hereford City Mission is born again as Herefordshire Vennture – a cross denominational initiative by the county’s churches to address social challenges emerging from an ebbing tide of publically funded health and welfare. While Vennture is a church rooted enterprise, it seeks to benefit and involve those of all faiths and none who want to share in its mission.

 

Our Mission

Like John and Emelia Venn we want to show 'the Power of Jesus Love in the public space'. Vennture’s mission is to ‘Love People Better’. Put simply we want to equip people to help people. In all our initiatives we develop in people three things: the awareness to come alongside others; the presence to travel with them through thick and thin and a sense of ownership that allows them to stick with people whatever happens.

 

The charity’s focus is on significant, substantive, sustainable initiatives that make a tangible difference for people facing significant challenges.

 

Further details of John Venn's life and work are set out in Jean O Donnell’s book ‘John Venn & the Friends of The Hereford Poor’.

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This all sounds good on the surface

 

Vennture’s growth requires a step by step approach to adding and delivering initiatives to its portfolio so growth is managed in a way that allows appropriate time to increase capacity in governance, leadership, funding, and people resources. All new project initiatives are subject to significant scrutiny at each stage of their development before they are progressed through the pipeline.

 

Clean Sheet:

Clean Sheet is an example of a project currently in development. Concern exists in Hereford for around 50 or so people (mainly men) caught in lifestyles characterised by addiction, worklessness, antisocial behaviour and homelessness or street living. These people have a disproportionate influence on overall perceptions of public safety in the city. Five of the men have died in the last 6 months (of 2014) and this has highlighted the need for a better and different approach to helping them.

 

From early July, The Police’s Operation Castlemain has begun to reduce public perceptions of antisocial behaviour by displacing the individuals from a number of designated sites. However, while they have been moved on, their personal problems have not.

 

The Police involved have impressed on food providers, drug and alcohol agencies, mental health and housing professionals, Herefordshire’s homeless forum and church leaders the need for ‘Carrots’ alongside the ‘Stick’ to encourage these individuals to make better choices.

 

The police argue that Hereford’s current charitable and support systems maintain destructive lifestyles. Feedback from providers suggests service users are manipulating benevolence to feed their addictions, which in turn fuel their bad behaviour. As the situation deteriorates, the police have been called to several providers. The police see an opportunity to reassess charitable efforts so they help those trapped in destructive lifestyles.

 

Findings

Benevolence and dependency create a divide that hinders meaningful influence of the problem’s root causes. Expectations of change among helpers – charitable and professional, are too low or non-existent; the helped and helpers remain in their own very different worlds; most opportunities to care by influence are missed. Our analysis is as follows:

 

It appears a new purpose needs to be introduced to raise expectations among the helpers and helped. Genuine relationships, which are based on ‘give and take’, need to be established. Practical progress requires an outcome framework that governs the actions of each individual helper – charitable and professional; the framework needs to focus helpers on moving each person away from their destructive lifestyle. Every contact, no matter how small, must be made to count.

 

A new purpose driven approach, which might mirror local successes in Integrated Offender Management, could be established within existing provision; it could make existing provision more meaningful and define a direction for a long-term plan. The focus would be on enhancing and improving existing support rather than changing or replacing it or pursuing costly alternatives that could add to the perceived problems. It would mean investing in educating and training the many dedicated to helping the few.

 

Insights:

To those 50 people caught in destructive lifestyles, the present system is a pleasant roundabout. Clumped together individual needs and prime opportunities for intervention go unnoticed. Behaviour is influenced by the lowest denominators; human characters are caught in a downward vortex that only leads to more unpleasant confrontations, more suffering and an unpleasant death. Without clear exits it is impossible to see a way out.

 

To those 100’s of people helping them, the present system is an opportunity to fulfil their obligation to the poor – professional and/or charitable. Each does their own thing – big or small, only connecting in passing with those they are helping. Awareness of the individual is rare, relationships are limited and no one appears to own the individual being helped. Helpers are accountable for what they do or give; few appear to be accountable for people related outcomes. Positive influence is absent.

 

Idea:

Addressing the real needs of 50 people is doable by 100’s of helpers if a new system is created that is characterised by:

1. Clear ways out relevant to each individual and known by everyone;

2. Simple, well-defined, easily understood paths to an exit point that gives access to the ways out;

3. Everyone uniting in common purpose to help individuals to their individual point of exit;

4. Meaningful, purpose driven relationships between the people helped and the people helping;

5. Strong and capable leadership committed to learning and continuous improvement,

6. Ambitious, well-articulated outcomes.

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Guys

 

I can confirm a couple of points for you. 

 

From a Night Time Economy view - the street pastors have been good news. 

From an NHS point of view - they have saved the smaller issues ending up in A&E and saved "us" money - sped up time in the A&E department and probably given better care to Night Time Economy people. 

 

From a BID point of view - we are doing a small trial with the street pastors to see if they can help with certain issues in the day time economy - this really is in its very early stages. 

 

I know a lot of the team and they do not "preach" their values - they just simply help people. 

 

I can also confirm that Vennture is not part of or anything to do with the Freedom Church and its a shame that this thread has taken this turn. 

 

Not only is this a good thing on the surface its a good thing when you understand it a bit better as well. 

 

Vennture put all of the Street Pastor team through rigorous training before they are out with the public 

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You're absolutely correct, Dan!

 

This is a good group of folks, who have helped many.....without forcing their religious views on anybody. They set up Emilia's Place, which was discussed at length on a thread previously.

 

No dodgy recruitment methods here, just practical help and support. From what I've heard, and what I know, this is a great group of people who will do their best, with NO ulterior motive.

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Guys

 

I can confirm a couple of points for you.

 

From a Night Time Economy view - the street pastors have been good news.

From an NHS point of view - they have saved the smaller issues ending up in A&E and saved "us" money - sped up time in the A&E department and probably given better care to Night Time Economy people.

 

From a BID point of view - we are doing a small trial with the street pastors to see if they can help with certain issues in the day time economy - this really is in its very early stages.

 

I know a lot of the team and they do not "preach" their values - they just simply help people.

 

I can also confirm that Vennture is not part of or anything to do with the Freedom Church and its a shame that this thread has taken this turn.

 

Not only is this a good thing on the surface its a good thing when you understand it a bit better as well.

 

Vennture put all of the Street Pastor team through rigorous training before they are out with the public

Hello Dan

 

I think what we will see in the future are more Christian organisations taking on more social care responsibilities in the future because of government cutbacks either as charities or not for profit companies? So amongst the good you will get some bad?!

 

But from what you say & also from what I have read about vennture,where they take their inspiration from the Rev john venn,with all the good things he did to help the poor here in Hereford. Then I think & hope they are the real deal when it comes to there Christian values of helping those in need.

 

But you can't blame people for being sceptical when it comes to modern churches with there methods & motives?…so its good when someone can set the record straight having worked along side the street pastors seeing the good that they do & the differance that they make.

 

I'm also aware that vennture are not part of FC although I can see where this might have lead to some confusion on this thread so I apologise to anyone who may have perceived this?

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I applaud this Dan as there is no doubt that the good work needs to continue through the daylight hours.

To be honest I feel guilty that I can do nothing at this time whilst committed to full time employment to help with this project. On other threads running currently a lot is spoken of some of the unsavoury goings on in the city at night however I often go into town between 7 and 9 in the morning when you can clearly identify certain individuals who are drunk or on drugs and I do wonder how many souls there are dumped out of the care system and left to cope with a mental health issue. Sadly I don't believe that a mother taking her child to the dentist should have to explain why four men are coming out of one toilet in Gaol Street at a shade before 9am.

 

It is great work that the street pastors are doing Dan and I for one would support any cause that gets them out there during the day. So much voluntary work is done in this County I'm not really sure where my council tax goes anymore...Well I do in fact and so does this site...Certain big salaries and pensions.

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So much charity work is carried out throughout the country and indeed the world.  Many of these are religious based charities start off as being religious based but then something happens and some of the good charities become greedy and not for the right reasons.  The leaders see the bright lights and think I wouldn't mind some of that  and so money raising spirals out of control but not for the givng back to society but to give the bosses a standard of living a lot of people can only dream of.

 

I think the contributors on this forum who are suspicious of religious charities can be forgiven for not grasping that Venture is a good one - it is all very confusing. The Diocese of Hereford is advertising for the appintment of a Childrens and Young Adults Safeguarding Adviser.

 

As Greenknight asks it is a wonder where our Council Tax does go when so much of the good work done is carried out by charities.

 

Let us hope that those employed by the Council on very handsome salaries are earning every penny of their renumeration by controlling all these different sectors of care for Children and Young Adults.  Let us hope that no scandal comes to light in years to come where religious people have abused their positions.   

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