Hereford Fire Station Planning Application

[megilleland]

Sit back and they will walk over the ratepayer and electorate - after all when in power, we will be told what is good for us. When I sent out emails to 58 councillors only 23 replied, and many of those said they would support the application, so I am afraid I don't support your confidence in the system. Earlier indication, through officer advice that this application would fail would have saved a lot of money, time and energy in pursuing this futile scheme. I wonder what the outcome would have been if the council had received no objections from an uninterested public, maybe the planners would have gone along with the ideology of the present administration.

[John Harrington]

AV , you are quite right and on facebook I have publicly praised the professionalism of our local civil servants in the face of all sorts of pressure. The Conservation officers and Tree officers and the planners have treated this application with thorough diligence and we are very grateful for their often unsung work. I apologise now for not including thanking them on here originally as the deserved.

I am certain though that public pressure rather than cllr pressure made the difference and this coupled with the professionalism shown by the planners is what swung the decision. No doubt aware that the indication was the application was going to be rejected, HWFS and the Cabinet made the only decision left possible in terms of saving face and dropped their application. Whatever the intricacies, it is a good and proper result and everyone who fought against the arrogant stupidity (there is no other word for the original plan) of the Cabinet deserves credit. At least, for today, the sun shines just a little brighter.

[bobby47]

Wonderful! I couldn't be more proud of those on here who shoved that wheel up the hill. Remarkable work. Stunningly good! To, Cambo, Dippy, Gridknocker, Megilleland, TwoWheels, Denise and Aylestone Voice, this City owes you all.

Mind, given that I didn't put a full shift in and I cannot join the roll of honour, I'll sit back and quietly convince myself that it was me and my objection to Harry's head that won the day.

Well done to everyone. This is up there with Jarvis stepping down. In fact, its better. Much, much better.

[megilleland]

Thursday 30 October 2014 in Hereford Times News by Bill Tanner

No "swap deal" for new fire station on Hereford heritage site.

Former boys home won't be new fire station

 

HEREFORD’S new fire station won’t be built on the Bath Street site of the city’s former working boys home.

 

Hereford & Worcester Fire & Rescue Service (HWFRS) has confirmed that the application for the new station – and related demolition works – has been withdrawn.

 

But a new fire station elsewhere “in the heart of Hereford†is still to be considered.

 

HWFRS says the withdrawal from Bath Street is a response to “extensive consultation†with the “wider communityâ€.

 

Herefordshire Council had originally identified the site – which it has vacated as offices - as a suitable location for a new fire station and agreed a swap deal with HWFRS.

 

In return, the council would have received the site of the city’s current fire station for redevelopment.

 

A response from council is expected later this morning.

 

Confirming the withdrawal, HWFRS stressed that the need for a new fire station in the city had not gone away, with the current station unsuited to present - and projected future - operation.

 

City heritage campaigners have been fighting to save the Working Boys Home since the Hereford Times revealed the deal earlier this year.

 

Founded in 1875, the Hereford and District Working Boys’ Home and Industrial School was supported by city benefactor John Venn.

 

English Heritage, however, rejected an application to list the site.

 

With the deal signed off by a single council cabinet member behind closed doors, HWFRS  submitted a planning application in August.

 

The service has recognized “significant concerns†were raised by a number of groups relating to the place of the development within the city’s conservation area.

 

HWFRS chief Mark Yates said: “Having carefully considered the concerns raised during the public consultation process, the Service intends to withdraw its planning application for a new fire station in Bath Street at this present time with a view to considering how best to respond to the concerns.â€

 

The Service, however, remained committed to building a new fire station “in the heart of Hereford†with further options to be considered, he said.

 

[megilleland]

The Service, however, remained committed to building a new fire station “in the heart of Hereford†with further options to be considered, he said.

 

I think these options were already suggested by posters and objectors earlier on in this topic - so savings to be made on producing more feasability reports in the future.

[flamboyant]

I am going to reign on everyone's parade and say what I believe will ultimately happen.

 

The Fire Station will be built at Bath Street the Council have decided and they will plough on regardless of public opinion! They will be regrouping as we speak, Cllr Johnson has a plan and he won't deviate from it! I sincerely hope I am wrong and I really wish I could join the celebrations but until they start digging foundations elsewhere I'm urging people to stay vigilant!

[Denise Lloyd]

and as if by magic here it is

 

 

"Hereford Times â€@HTnewsroom  20 mins

20 minutes ago

New Hereford fire station - Council says Bath Street site could still be an option: Statement suggests council... http://bit.ly/1sJXcSg "

 

Well done flam!

 

[John Harrington]

Flam and Denise, I think this is called covering your severe embarrassment. This application is dead in the water.

None of the circumstances that indicated refusal are going to change.

It almost makes you feel sorry for Harry and the Cabinet that they have degraded themselves so publicly by claiming it's still an option.

Risible and pathetic and yet extremely heartening.

[megilleland]

Herefordshire Council Newsroom: 30 October 2014

Council statement on Bath Street, Hereford

    

Herefordshire Council understand the current position of Hereford & Worcester Fire and Rescue Service and its decision regarding Bath Street in Hereford.

 

We wish to continue positive dialogue with the fire service to assist them to bring forward suitable solutions for the delivery of a new fire station in the city centre.

 

This will include an assessment as to whether the Bath Street site remains a possible option.

 

This cabinet will not lie down and die. 

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

I agree with John H above: risible is the word. Reminds me of the Python's dead parrot sketch, with Michael Palin playing Harry Bramer, refusing to concede that the game's up.

[flamboyant]

I hope your right! I have my fingers crossed very tightly!

[Cambo]

Well mr Johnson & mr bramer can be my guests if they want to continue on with this futile quest? as I will continue to fight there arrogant ways & egotistical manner to the total disregard for public opinion on this matter!!!

there is no shame in admitting your wrong but to continue on blindly when you know your wrong is shear folly & one of foolishness!!!

[dippyhippy]

Oh Dear Lord!!

 

I clamber down from the Welsh Mountains, to be greeted by this wonderful news.....Hallelujah!!

 

It's been a long, hard slog....but we have done it!!

 

I am so very proud of all my posting pals who have emailed, objected, leafleted, phoned, grumbled, complained and generally made a nuisance of ourselves! This is brilliant!!

 

This just goes to show that we absolutely CAN make a positive difference when we all band together!!

 

Well done everybody!

 

Just for once, the score reads....

 

 

Harry Bramer......0

 

Mendacious Oddities......1 !!!!

[flamboyant]

Welcome back Dip! I hadn't realised we were labelled medacious oddities I thought we were mendacious meddlers! Perhaps we are mendacious, meddling oddities?

[dippyhippy]

Thanks Flam!!

 

Yes....we have always been oddities, well according to Fffffiona anyway!

 

The Mendacious Oddities......but what's not to like about a little bit of meddling????

 

Especially when it gets results!!!!

[Ubique]

Apologies for this late post relating to the Fire Service withdrawing their Planning Application - my excuse is that I have spent the last few days in a remote part of Wales , no phone/ internet yet and my mobile is similar shape to a brick hence returning to over 150 emails .

 

Congratulations to the main team of Cambo , Dippy , Megilland Gridkocker et al .plus Al the Posters who took the time to submit Objections. You all worked so hard - interesting to read that the Fire Chief considered the objections from Organisations like English Heritage , Victoria Society etc - if it had not been Posters on this site none of them would have been aware -!

 

Must add that Mrs Ubique is also very pleased because there is now no need for me ( with Bobby ) to camp on the roof of the Working Boys Home .

 

WELL DONE GANG - PEOPLE POWER AND COMMON SENSE WINS.

[Jim Kenyon]

Folks I sit on the hereford and Worcester fire authority there is a real need for a new station the old one is not fit for purpose especially with the second pump looking at becoming day crew plus they will need sleeping accommodation it could mean if they don't find an alternative quickly they may go back to the bath st option. I know there have been some alternative suggestions on this tread can I suggest you get behind one else the fight you have put up will be in vain I'm afraid to say my priority is to get a new station that is fit for purpose with the changing in crewing which keeps the fire cover in best shape possible, I would put that over the old boys school give me something to get behind which is viable and deliverable and I will support it.

[Aylestone Voice]

Has there been any independent study which concludes that the existing fire station cannot be upgraded? Or is it that they can have money for a new building but not to repair the existing building? I suspect that any fire service report was just written so as to justify the new build option because that was where the money was.

As to Bath Street. Is it right to set aside the legal duty to preserve or enhance the Conservation Area just so that a new fire station can be built. Most on here would answer "no". With the most rose tinted spectacles on could anyone in their right mind conclude that the building proposed was of any architectural quality at all? The "designer" took no account of the site context nor had any thought to it being in a conservation area. Also the site was barely big enough given that the design almost filled it.

The answer to their problems is to either upgrade the existing fire station or to find a site where they can build a bland functional shed but which also has a better access to the road network.

[John Harrington]

To answer your pertinent question Aylestone Voice, I seem to remember that the feasibility report we received under the FoI request stated several options for a way forward. Option 1 was do nothing (ie/make do for several more years, although they stated there were problems with that) and Option 2 was refurb the existing building. Then there were the other rebuild options (none of which incidentally, if I recall correctly mentioned the Bath St site).

The wiring needed redoing apparently as it was coming to the end of it's life and I think there was mention of the need for more space for training facilities (docs all on Hereford Voice on original thread I think). I firmly believe the upgrade and refurb option could be fully explored and perhaps be the perfect solution if the bus station idea is not yet viable. And any extra from the savings regards no demolition/ complete rebuild costs, could, with Jim K's forceful representationn could perhaps be put into the county's budget to help keep our fire personnel fully employed.

[John Harrington]

So No, I don't think there has been an independent study but it was obviously considered (the refurb option) to some extent during preparation of the original report.

[dippyhippy]

The bus station seems to be the most viable option to me, if they need a new build????

[Ubique]

It's just my thought for the day , which may have been thought of / suggested previously .......

 

Have the powers that be considered building on one the Council owned Car Parks off Bath St ( know it's a Conservation Area but that appears inmaterial ) .Then they do what they want to do on the old Fire Station site - recall many months ago thought the Council said that it would become a car park.

 

Likewise since the new bus timetable started there has been a reduction in buses going to the City Bus Station,choosing when coming into town to stop outside the new shopping area. So perhaps this location should also be considered?

 

See on BBC MID WALES that they are building a new Fire Station in Aberystwyth costing £1 million.

[bobby47]

Jimmy, Im not so certain this Firestation ain't fit for purpose. Really Im not. There are hundreds and hundreds of the same design fire houses all across our Country and many, particularly within Greater London, are considered worthy pieces of architecture.

With great respect to you Jim, all these things start off when one person in authority feels 'cuts' are a threat and the idea of 'let's build a new one' germinates and then takes root. That's what public services do over and over again. They build! They're driven to build to avoid the axe and maintain their position.

Where the current firehouse is, given the traffic problems we have in the City, at least its positioned beyond the lights, opposite you and the tender has an escape route. Shove that firehouse further up that road, plant it upon the Old Boys Home, and the 'escape' for the tender is worse because the traffic is more congested and the road narrower.

If we must have a new one, and Im pretty certain we will be getting one, then lets plant this box in a place where the tender can freely escape all ways and battle their way through the traffic a little later than they would have if they escaped out onto Bath Street.

If an 'escape' argument can be used by you Jimmy and if its come from me its probably bollo.cks, then The Bus Station, with its wide Commercial Road seems to me to be a better option. At the least, once this pointless link road is built, the lads sat inside the tender will have a set of different routes to escape into and extinguish the fire and not be committed to battling their way up Blue School Street.

Yep! If the safe and quick escape of the fire tender is an arguable point, I'd say let them build their box down by the Firestation rather than inside a bottleneck of vehicular chaos.

[flamboyant]

Cllr Kenyon when you say they may go back to the Bath Street option, how exactly could they get round the issues they have identified? Also isn't the bus station ear marked for something else so can be ruled out as an alternative?

[Jim Kenyon]

Thanks for your views there are a lot of things to consider one being the retained firefighters must live within 5 mins of the station so moving it to far is an issue the fire service were told the bus station is not available for at least 5 years "I will explore this" moving forward we need a fit for purpose fire station in Hfd the current one is not. Please come up with some solutions not just for the fire station but what we do with bath street I will listen and push them forward if they are viable or try and explain if there not you want to be listened to this is your chance because rest assured if you don't the powers that be will push things through, folks so you know I don't sit on the planning committee but I can speak up for any sensible suggestions.

[bobby47]

And what do we do when the economic climate brightens, the fiscal vice is slackened and we've suddenly completed the circle and we go back to recruiting and retaining another full time crew. And it will happen. We've flattened the Old Boys home, shifted the firehouse further into a bottleneck with no clear escapes during peak time vehicular traffic and the box we created was only ever put there because the retained firefighters lived only five minutes away.

This is mad thinking. It's madness. I ain't having a pop at you Jimmy. None of this is your fault but to think that we are going to flatten a much loved building because it meets the needs for retained firefighters is madness. It's crazy and deluded thinking.

What happens when the retained firefighters all move home and suddenly live beyond the five minutes. If we follow the logic, we'll either ban retained firefighters from moving outside the five minutes or, we won't ban them and we'll knock down the next box and build another box somewhere else.

It's bloody crazy! And why? Because someone thought it a good idea to build a new firehouse and perpetuate the myth that the current firehouse ain't fit for purpose.

That bloody firehouse is younger than my bloody house. My house is fit for purpose and so is the Firestation. It's been branded unfit because some fool in a suit says it is and after paying a consultancy fee they've got another suit to offer their expert opinion which concludes, 'this Firestation ain't fit for purpose'.

It's all bloody rubbish!

[Ubique]

Jim, it appears that the 5 minute criteria for Retained Firefighters is important - I can understand that .

 

( I presume that one can only apply to be a Retained Firefighter if you live within 5 minutes of the Station , and that's tablets of stone ?)

 

Why can't one of the car parks opposite the Working Boys Home be considered bearing in mind that there are a good number of car parking spaces at the Old Market - ( I presume that the Parking fees for this car park is retained by a Company not connected with the Council )

[dippyhippy]

Hi Jim,

 

I guess we would all like to see an independent report, detailing what exactly would need to be done to bring the original fire station up to scratch. I seem to recall reading that money was ONLY available for a new build.

 

We have also been told that the fire station would be prepared to wait for an alternative site, and we also have seen documents detailing that the county bus station will be surplus to requirements in two years, rather than the five you mention.

 

There has also been much talk about the proposed University being interested in this building.

 

Failing that, I still think developers such as those who worked on the old general hospital or Victoria Eye Hospital, should be asked if they would be interested in purchasing it.

 

At the end of the day, you just cannot plonk an industrial unit, slap bang into the middle of a conservation area. If we allow his to happen, then just about any building is going to be fair game.

This building was standing long before any of us came along, and it should still be standing long after we have all long since departed.

 

Above all, we need to value and cherish our cultural heritage. We need to reinvigorate these buildings, make them relevant to the times we live in with sympathetic restoration/renovation, but more than that, we need to be lovely thinking that we want to pass our city on to the next generation in a better state than it's currently in.

 

That, is the biggest challenge of all.

[Jim Kenyon]

Unique all car parking revenues go to the council on the new site as well so it would cost the council in lost tickets sales I don't think the administration would go for that option because they would still have the old boys site to do something with as well my thoughts are bus station best alternative option, has anyone asked the residents of central ave what they want??

[twowheelsgood]

Re-development Opportunity - Bath Street

 

'For Sale' sign has gone up - Bruton Knowles - on their web set it says 'Price on application', in the brochure it says offers in by noon on Wednesday 20th April 2016. Take your pick. Link to BK page;

 

http://tinyurl.com/z6cl8kx