Shame of EU wasn't it?

[Frank Smith]

Good to see the recommendations from The International Development Committee being discussed on Channel 4 news this evening.

 

The main recommendation being that the UK should take 3000 unaccompanied children, who have currently made their way alone to Europe. I truly hope these recommendations are accepted, and we can welcome these children, and give them safe haven.

 

I also hope that the decision is made sooner rather than later. It's almost three weeks since this was first mentioned - I posted about this on January 5th - these vulnerable youngsters need help now.

 

 

All these unaccompanied children have walked hundreds of miles through many other EU countries (And have gone un-noticed by these other Countries) all heading to the UK? Why? When they could of stopped walking a long time back. 

[Osmosis]

Well you can look it up for yourself (Bill Thomas) by all means. Life isn't easy for these people, and the UK certainly doesn't make it easier. The allowance for an adult in France is around £8, but they make no allowances for children, which is why families may be better off in the UK. I don't know where you read about refugees refusing to be treated by female medics - was it a reliable source? I'm always sceptical. There's a corporate media narrative that portrays refugees and asylum seekers as uncivilised, barbaric, ignorant of the west etc etc but I don't buy into it myself.

[Osmosis]

All these unaccompanied children have walked hundreds of miles through many other EU countries (And have gone un-noticed by these other Countries) all heading to the UK? Why? When they could of stopped walking a long time back. 

No, they've reached the EU, now the International Development committee is recommending that we take 3000. Many of them will have been orphaned en route.

[Frank Smith]

No, they've reached the EU, now the International Development committee is recommending that we take 3000. Many of them will have been orphaned en route.

 

No, they have reached Calais! Which means they have gone through many other countries, well it does in my atlas. 

[Bill Thomas]

There's a corporate media narrative that portrays refugees and asylum seekers as uncivilised, barbaric, ignorant of the west etc etc but I don't buy into it myself.

 

Try explaining that to the woman that were abused in Cologne! 

[dippyhippy]

Evening Frank, figures from Save The Children estimate there are well over 5000 unaccompanied children currently in camps across Europe... so not just Calais by any means.

 

These kids are sitting ducks for the worst sort of predators; many may have already been lost. As a parent and a human, this breaks my heart.

 

As Osmosis pointed out, the majority are orphans in all probability.

 

They are in desperate need. 

[Paul Jones]

Try explaining that to the woman that were abused in Cologne! 

 You took the words out of my mouth.

 

Why are these refugees not going to other Muslim countries? Qatar, Dubai, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia etc..

[Osmosis]

No, they have reached Calais! Which means they have gone through many other countries, well it does in my atlas. 

You're wrong. There are about 7000 people at the Jungle camp in Calais. A further 2500 or so are at Dunkirk. Do you really think 3000 of them are children? Why do you think they all want to get to the UK?

[Osmosis]

Try explaining that to the woman that were abused in Cologne! 

Yup, no woman has ever been groped and abused by a white British man on new year's eve.

[Frank Smith]

Evening Frank, figures from Save The Children estimate there are well over 5000 unaccompanied children currently in camps across Europe... so not just Calais by any means.

 

These kids are sitting ducks for the worst sort of predators; many may have already been lost. As a parent and a human, this breaks my heart.

 

As Osmosis pointed out, the majority are orphans in all probability.

 

They are in desperate need. 

 

Good evening dippy, it breaks my heart too. Germany have taken over 1 million refugees and over 69% are single male adults! 18% are children and 13% female adults, surely the priority should of been these children? 

[Osmosis]

 You took the words out of my mouth.

 

Why are these refugees not going to other Muslim countries? Qatar, Dubai, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia etc..

Well, as i said earlier, 86% are hosted by developing countries. Turkey has most of the Syrians.

[Bill Thomas]

Yup, no woman has ever been groped and abused by a white British man on new year's eve.

 

Well if this is your best answer, I have no more words...

 

Not on this scale! Can you not see the difference on this night in Germany and Sweden there were hundreds of these perverts HUNDREDS! And these are the people that Germany offered a welcoming hand. 

[dippyhippy]

I understand that the top three countries to host refugees are, Turkey, Pakistan and Lebanon.

[dippyhippy]

Hi Frank, sorry just seen your reply.

 

For me, children always take priority. That's not to say that we shouldn't be helping others, who are in desperate straits..... I'm not going to go through the lengthy debate I had on the other thread on this subject, I feel I've made my views very well known. I haven't changed my thoughts on this, and still feel there is far more that we as a country can do.

 

Apologies for the 'bold' text... slight technical issue this evening.

[Osmosis]

Well if this is your best answer, I have no more words...

 

Not on this scale! Can you not see the difference on this night in Germany and Sweden there were hundreds of these perverts HUNDREDS! And these are the people that Germany offered a welcoming hand. 

I believe 21 people have been charged in Cologne with various crimes, not sure of the numbers of those who are identified as asylum seekers, as opposed to just "North African". But given that they aren't allowed to earn any money, it's perhaps not surprising that some asylum seekers turn to theft? I just don't believe that narrative that they are all perverts and rapists. You sound like Donald Trump!

[Bill Thomas]

Well you can look it up for yourself (Bill Thomas) by all means. Life isn't easy for these people, and the UK certainly doesn't make it easier. The allowance for an adult in France is around £8, but they make no allowances for children, which is why families may be better off in the UK. I don't know where you read about refugees refusing to be treated by female medics - was it a reliable source? I'm always sceptical. There's a corporate media narrative that portrays refugees and asylum seekers as uncivilised, barbaric, ignorant of the west etc etc but I don't buy into it myself.

 

You still never answered my question, how will they live in the UK?

No, they've reached the EU, now the International Development committee is recommending that we take 3000. Many of them will have been orphaned en route.

 

You're wrong. There are about 7000 people at the Jungle camp in Calais. A further 2500 or so are at Dunkirk. Do you really think 3000 of them are children? Why do you think they all want to get to the UK?

 

Yes, you definitely said 3000 unaccompanied children 

 

 

Well, as i said earlier, 86% are hosted by developing countries. Turkey has most of the Syrians.

 

Again, can you answer Paul's, question. Why are these refugees not going to other Muslim countries? Qatar, Dubai, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia etc..

[Bill Thomas]

I believe 21 people have been charged in Cologne with various crimes, not sure of the numbers of those who are identified as asylum seekers, as opposed to just "North African". But given that they aren't allowed to earn any money, it's perhaps not surprising that some asylum seekers turn to theft? I just don't believe that narrative that they are all perverts and rapists. You sound like Donald Trump!

 

Your numbers from a reliable source or one of these dodgy ones? lol

 

We have millions of unemployed people of our own, we also have hundreds of homeless and people living in poverty. There are no jobs, certainly not enough for our own. So again, how will thousands be able to live in the UK?

[Mick]

Yup, no woman has ever been groped and abused by a white British man on new year's eve.

 

I am shocked at this comment after what happened in Germany and Sweden. They should allow woman children and the elderly into the EU and give the single (frustrated) adult men a gun each and they should fight for their country like our grandparents did in the 1st and 2nd world war. 

[dippyhippy]

Hi Bill, in answer to your question about helping those in poverty here... to me the solution is that we don't help either/or, we help both. We can't solve the worlds problems, but I certainly feel that we can do more to help.

 

Again, I'd like to reiterate that I have no intention of repeating past arguments! I have my principles... and I'm sticking with them! 

[Osmosis]

You still never answered my question, how will they live in the UK?

 

 

Yes, you definitely said 300 unaccompanied children 

 

 

 

Again, can you answer Paul's, question. Why are these refugees not going to other Muslim countries? Qatar, Dubai, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia etc..

OK, I'll try to take your queries one at a time.

How will they live in the UK? that's a good question. They are housed if they have nowhere to live, usually in a hostel. Like I said, about £5 a day, and I believe they can look for work if their claim for asylum has not been processed after about a year, but only in areas where there is a shortage of personnel, e.g. nursing.

 

To be clear, there are unaccompanied children who have reached Europe, and we are recommended to take 3000 of them. They are not massed at Calais, where there are about 7000 people IN TOTAL.

 

Regarding why they come to Europe rather than going to Saudi etc, if you look at a map you will see that Turkey is the easiest place to seek refuge, and that's where most Syrians are, plus also in Jordan and Lebanon, which has a huge proportion. They're obviously no safer in Iraq, so they're not going there. Europe is next, after Turkey, geographically. Saudi is a long, long way away, Qatar, Bahrain, further. But yes, you could reasonably argue that those countries could do more. That doesn't mean we should do less.

[Bill Thomas]

Hi Bill, in answer to your question about helping those in poverty here... to me the solution is that we don't help either/or, we help both. We can't solve the worlds problems, but I certainly feel that we can do more to help.

 

Again, I'd like to reiterate that I have no intention of repeating past arguments! I have my principles... and I'm sticking with them! 

 

Hi dippy, what more can we do and is there going to be a limit to what we can do? I say this because this flow of migrants is not slowing down, (special thanks to Angela Merkel) and it only going to gain momentum in my view.

[Bill Thomas]

OK, I'll try to take your queries one at a time.

How will they live in the UK? that's a good question. They are housed if they have nowhere to live, usually in a hostel. Like I said, about £5 a day, and I believe they can look for work if their claim for asylum has not been processed after about a year, but only in areas where there is a shortage of personnel, e.g. nursing.

 

To be clear, there are unaccompanied children who have reached Europe, and we are recommended to take 3000 of them. They are not massed at Calais, where there are about 7000 people IN TOTAL.

 

Regarding why they come to Europe rather than going to Saudi etc, if you look at a map you will see that Turkey is the easiest place to seek refuge, and that's where most Syrians are, plus also in Jordan and Lebanon, which has a huge proportion. They're obviously no safer in Iraq, so they're not going there. Europe is next, after Turkey, geographically. Saudi is a long, long way away, Qatar, Bahrain, further. But yes, you could reasonably argue that those countries could do more. That doesn't mean we should do less.

 

Housed, we have no housing! We have homeless people now and lots of them, so I fail to see how we can house more people if we cannot house our own? It all sounds great but it is not realistic.

 

I also agree that these other muslim countries COULD do more.

[Bill Thomas]

I am shocked at this comment after what happened in Germany and Sweden. They should allow woman children and the elderly into the EU and give the single (frustrated) adult men a gun each and they should fight for their country like our grandparents did in the 1st and 2nd world war. 

 

Yes - 100%

[Osmosis]

I am shocked at this comment after what happened in Germany and Sweden. They should allow woman children and the elderly into the EU and give the single (frustrated) adult men a gun each and they should fight for their country like our grandparents did in the 1st and 2nd world war. 

Were your grandparents caught up in a vicious civil war, and being bombed simultaneously by Russia, the US, France, UK?  I'm out of here. I like informed debate, but you can't do that with a vegetable.

[Mick]

Were your grandparents caught up in a vicious civil war, and being bombed simultaneously by Russia, the US, France, UK?  I'm out of here. I like informed debate, but you can't do that with a vegetable.

 

Yes my grandparents were Polish and were invaded by the Nazis and then by the Russians so please do not attempt to preach to me! Are you so naive to believe that all of thee refugees are just Syrain? This is a forum and we will all hold different views and opinions, I respect your views, although I may not agree with you but I will not throw my toys out of the pram and lower myself to name calling, that is uncalled for.

[Osmosis]

Yes my grandparents were Polish and were invaded by the Nazis and then by the Russians so please do not attempt to preach to me! Are you so naive to believe that all of thee refugees are just Syrain? This is a forum and we will all hold different views and opinions, I respect your views, although I may not agree with you but I will not throw my toys out of the pram and lower myself to name calling, that is uncalled for.

My apologies Mick, I regretted it after I posted it. You are right, we should not be making assumptions about one another on an anonymous forum. One thing though. Many Poles came to the UK during, and after WWII, perhaps that's why you're here now. They weren't told to go home and fight for their country. They were welcome here then, and some of us welcome the Poles who have migrated here since Poland joined the EU. No not all refugees are from Syria. Many are from Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, and other places where we have helped to destroy the infrastructure and make it unsafe to live. Some do stay and fight of course. 

I can see that my views are unpopular on here, but whilst I've been challenged to back up every point I've made, and I've tried to do that, I don't see anybody else doing it. There's a lot of simple uninformed prejudice on this forum, and it's pretty ugly.

[Denise Lloyd]

Good job the Poles and Italians were not sent home after the war they brought vital skills and hard work  to this country.

 

" There were 3.7 million children living in poverty in the UK in 2013-14. That's 28 per cent of children, or 9 in a classroom of 30.1."

 

Are there really 3000 suitably trained bilingual families up running and ready to give a warm loving home to children who will be extremely frightened desparate and vulnerable.

 

Who would police this Social Services or charities and who pays?

 

I am not saying no but praticalities have to be considered and this country has not got a good record for caring for vulnerable children.  Only 50 years children from this country were still being sent to Australia via charities to what they were told to be better lives many were used and abused and had horrible lives losing all contact with their blood relatives.   

 

No innocent human being should have to live in the squalid conditions these people are enduring in Calais but I do not know the answer. This country can only do so much and sadly this country has fallen too behind in it's own housekeeping to open it's arms too widely. 

[M. Preece]

Good job the Poles and Italians were not sent home after the war they brought vital skills and hard work  to this country.

 

" There were 3.7 million children living in poverty in the UK in 2013-14. That's 28 per cent of children, or 9 in a classroom of 30.1."

 

Are there really 3000 suitably trained bilingual families up running and ready to give a warm loving home to children who will be extremely frightened desparate and vulnerable.

 

Who would police this Social Services or charities and who pays?

 

I am not saying no but praticalities have to be considered and this country has not got a good record for caring for vulnerable children.  Only 50 years children from this country were still being sent to Australia via charities to what they were told to be better lives many were used and abused and had horrible lives losing all contact with their blood relatives.   

 

No innocent human being should have to live in the squalid conditions these people are enduring in Calais but I do not know the answer. This country can only do so much and sadly this country has fallen too behind in it's own housekeeping to open it's arms too widely. 

 

I agree with Denise, we can help many of these people and we are helping, could we do more? Possibly, but I am not in favour on an open door policy that Germany adopted and Angela Merkel is losing votes and popularity because of the problems her policy has brought with it. Many migrants are from north Africa and further a field, so these people are not all from war torn countries, it is a difficult situation and we cannot sort out the worlds problems, we are a small island in comparison to some countries and although we could do a little more, there has to be a limit. I also think Mick has a good point. Many Polish people were fighting along side us in the war including many Polish pilots. 

[M. Preece]

 There's a lot of simple uninformed prejudice on this forum, and it's pretty ugly.

 

Welcome to the forum Osmosis.

I am please to see you offered an apology for you outburst which was quite frankly unnecessary.

 

With respect, what makes your comments more informed than other members comments? Simply because another person does not agree with you makes it pretty ugly here?  This is a forum and not everyone will not share the same views, so lets continue with debate.

[Mick]

My apologies Mick, I regretted it after I posted it. You are right, we should not be making assumptions about one another on an anonymous forum. One thing though. Many Poles came to the UK during, and after WWII, perhaps that's why you're here now. They weren't told to go home and fight for their country. They were welcome here then, and some of us welcome the Poles who have migrated here since Poland joined the EU. No not all refugees are from Syria. Many are from Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, and other places where we have helped to destroy the infrastructure and make it unsafe to live. Some do stay and fight of course. 

I can see that my views are unpopular on here, but whilst I've been challenged to back up every point I've made, and I've tried to do that, I don't see anybody else doing it. There's a lot of simple uninformed prejudice on this forum, and it's pretty ugly.

 

I appreciate your apology. I am in the UK because my grandfather fought alongside British in the war and met my grandmother here. I am pleased that Poland became a member of the EU, it was long overdue.