Cannot Purchase Hot Food In Hereford City After 1.30am

[stupidfrustration]

The young people who go out and eat the cold food at 2/3am leave the remains of their food lieing around and dont put the rubbish in the bins, this then gives the seagulls food, and they get fat and re produce.

 

I am aware that Hereford City council have spent some time on dealing with seagulls, and I have noticed a reduction in how many there are in town of late. Doesnt stop them finding my wifes car and depositing their thoughts, but their flourishing numbers are being helped due to how we dispose of rubbish.

 

Im not against business at all, really Im not. I do not discriminate against late night take aways, im mean, really I have no benefit at all to not want them to stay open later, however I DO understand the arguement of young people, who have had a drink meeting up in late night establishments having a fight.

 

In having control of the late night food establishments, even if the control is unfair, I do understand how this reduces disorder/injuries. Maybe "they" the powers that be, can try letting them stay open late for 6 months and see what happens?

[dippyhippy]

Evening Stupid frustration!

 

A trial period, is an extremely good suggestion - the only fly in the ointment being HC being so adverse to trialling anything which comes under the heading of,

'A Jolly Decent And Common Sense Idea."

 

It doesn't matter if its hot food, traffic lights or building a monstrosity in a conservation area.....if some bright spark comes up with a common sense solution, they don't want to hear it!

[Cambo]

@ m preece yes back in the day fond memories!!
I'm not being critically I'm all for getting hot food after 1.30am, but human behaviour has not changed that much it just happens @ different times throughout the night, now instead of a mass brawl or even a mine riot which happen back in the late 80's on a New Year's Eve in high town when little fights evolved into the crowd turning on the police!
I live on st Owen street & it's pretty quiet to be fair but it wouldn't bother me if it was busy late @ nite as I do live in the centre of the city & I feel it goes with the territory so I should expected it really!!

[George Armstrong]

My understanding is that the relevant authorities are 'open' to consider later opening hours for hot food providers within the City Centre, and new applications will be considered on a 'case by case' basis. Of course, such proprietors must be careful with what they wish for, because should a major national player be successful in such an application, that would change the shape of 'the market' forever.

[Bill Thomas]

My understanding is that the relevant authorities are 'open' to consider later opening hours for hot food providers within the City Centre, and new applications will be considered on a 'case by case' basis. Of course, such proprietors must be careful with what they wish for, because should a major national player be successful in such an application, that would change the shape of 'the market' forever.

 

Welcome to HV George. 

 

This is encouraging news, 'open to consider' sounds promising but are you sure that is the case? If a major national company was granted later opening hours then that would open the door to all, hopefully. 

[stupidfrustration]

General Custer joins the board - welcome - the battle of little big horn is a great analogy here.

 

Carefull what the local traders wish for - as if the nasty big American chain stay open till the same time as "mr chips" et al - it could change the face of the late night food business for ever.

 

Sadly the majority of the 18-30s who are out at 2/3/4 am given the choice of a mr chips burger or a Big Mac - I suspect will go for a Big Mac - and then with how many people who choose that - it won't be worth mr chips staying open - which means all that has happened is we have given the green light for a national to take money from Hereford night time and the local traders would loose out further.

[Bill Thomas]

General Custer joins the board - welcome - the battle of little big horn is a great analogy here.

 

Carefull what the local traders wish for - as if the nasty big American chain stay open till the same time as "mr chips" et al - it could change the face of the late night food business for ever.

 

Sadly the majority of the 18-30s who are out at 2/3/4 am given the choice of a mr chips burger or a Big Mac - I suspect will go for a Big Mac - and then with how many people who choose that - it won't be worth mr chips staying open - which means all that has happened is we have given the green light for a national to take money from Hereford night time and the local traders would loose out further.

 

It's not about individual companies it's about CHOICE! Something we are lacking in within this village in which we live! 

[Alex]

It's not about individual companies it's about CHOICE! Something we are lacking in within this village in which we live! 

 

Exactly 100%

[stupidfrustration]

WHAT? Really?

 

Here is my take on how it MAY work.

 

Business is there to make money - thats business.

At the moment - there are a handful of local business who trade food till late. ( not late enough possibly )

 

IF the licencing restriction was lifted, it is lifted for all of the late night food houses.

Great news - loads of choice!

Locals and nationals all open.

 

However - the amount of people who are out in Hereford of a night time means there would be FAR too much choice for all of those late night food houses to stay open.

 

When I go out in Hereford, its only a Saturday night there are a lot of people out - the other nights ive been out recently are pretty quiet.

 

So - maybe 2000 people out in Hereford at 2am between Fusion, Play, Jailhouse, Saxtys, Mamma Jammers?  That number may be a little high, but work with me here.

 

Fusion, Play, Saxtys all have food on site.

 

Not all of the 2000 people will want food.

 

For the sake of arguement maybe 1000? Again, im plucking figures, but you get the point.

 

Play has the most customers and food on site, say 200 customers there for food?

Maybe 100 for Fusions on site food?

Maybe 100 for Saxtys on site food?

 

600 customers potentially available for :

KFC

2 kebab shops next to the Commercial

The Lunch Box

Munchies

Mr Chips

The Golden Galleon 

The Tasty wok about to open next to Munchies

The 2 kebab shops next to Bar Spirit

 

So - 10 possible late night food houses - Great - loads of choice......

 

10 places - possibly 600 customers left in town - so hey - 60 customers each. Maybe £4 per person spent? 

 

Oh sorry - I missed one out - McDonalds - the one place that all the younger people want to eat in is now open to, so hey - lets just go there.

 

Maybe Im not being clear in my point - but in my humble opinion there are not enough customers around to keep CHOICE available for you  Bill.

 

It is my opinion that it may unfold this way :

The Council lift the restriction.

Its an open market.

They all open later

After a month or so - many realise its not working for them as McDonalds has taken the majority of trade.

 

But hey - at least you can choose between a Big Mac / Qtr Pounder or maybe a salad?

[Biomech]

It doesn't matter what angle you come at it from - the temperature of food is what is at issue here and the temperature of food has no bearing at all on levels of violence, unless you're grasping for something like a hot grease burn from burger to the forehead.

[Biomech]

And, for what it's worth, I've seen more fights inside clubs in the past year than I have in the streets in the last 5 years 

[stupidfrustration]

Bio - Its possible you havnt seen many fights in the streets because of the restrictions?

 

Look at other towns where these restrictions are not there.

 

Worcester? Its like fight club around that time of night.

Broad Street Birmingham - again, brawls all the way along the street.

Cardiff - much the same - and again with a seagull problem - which effects day time trade and im constantly wiping seagull poop from the wifes car!

Sweansea - oh and a BIG McDonalds there that has queues out the door.

 

And around 2 months ago there was a TV show about Colchester and bouncers - did you see how the bouncers of pubs and clubs just let the fights occur and not get involved in the late night food houses? Again, I understand it with bouncer insurance etc, but if it was YOUR child getting a shoeing in a kebab shop, wouldnt you want the door staff of the pub/club next door to go and "save him/her"?

 

But again, these are all much bigger cities with THOUSANDS more people out and about.

 

With regards to the 1.30 - its how OUR council have interpreted the LAW.

 

Do I agree with it? - well, partly yes, partly no - I have a fence post up my backside - BUT i do UNDERSTAND it and the logic behind it.

 

and on top of all of this, I dont want money leaving town for the big nasty American chain, and would prefer local business keep and spend the money in our lovely little town, preferably High Town!

[Alex]

Bio - Its possible you havnt seen many fights in the streets because of the restrictions?

 

Look at other towns where these restrictions are not there.

 

Worcester? Its like fight club around that time of night.

Broad Street Birmingham - again, brawls all the way along the street.

Cardiff - much the same - and again with a seagull problem - which effects day time trade and im constantly wiping seagull poop from the wifes car!

Sweansea - oh and a BIG McDonalds there that has queues out the door.

 

And around 2 months ago there was a TV show about Colchester and bouncers - did you see how the bouncers of pubs and clubs just let the fights occur and not get involved in the late night food houses? Again, I understand it with bouncer insurance etc, but if it was YOUR child getting a shoeing in a kebab shop, wouldnt you want the door staff of the pub/club next door to go and "save him/her"?

 

But again, these are all much bigger cities with THOUSANDS more people out and about.

 

With regards to the 1.30 - its how OUR council have interpreted the LAW.

 

Do I agree with it? - well, partly yes, partly no - I have a fence post up my backside - BUT i do UNDERSTAND it and the logic behind it.

 

and on top of all of this, I dont want money leaving town for the big nasty American chain, and would prefer local business keep and spend the money in our lovely little town, preferably High Town!

 

Sorry I do not agree at all. You have selected the larger cities here as your examples, Cardiff, Birmingham, Swansea and Worcester, nevertheless, you will always have a certain amount of trouble, this is usually fuelled by booze NOT FOOD! So if it's okay in these cities then why not in Hereford? There are a lot less people here.

 

In general the police are called out more often at the weekends but this can also be to residential area's too, people are not working, so they do argue more etc etc.

 

Tesco's in open 24 hours, a friend of mine works in Tesco in the city centre and there is hardly any trouble during the early hours including the weekend.

 

I can go and buy a hot Ginsters from the 24 hour garage, that's okay too, but apparently I cannot sit down in an Indian restaurant at 2am? I cannot grab a Chinese take away on my way home from the nightclub either.. it's ridiculous, we live in a democracy, I should be able to choose if I want to eat at 2am not be told that I cannot! 

 

I am not at all surprised that a lot of people avoid Hereford at the weekends, the council should be encouraging local people to stay local and spend their money locally and promote local eating houses who rely on this weekend trade. 

[Paul Jones]

Hereford is sat in the 60's and needs to move with the times, not being able to purchase a curry after 1am is crap, we came out of Fusion at about 2am this morning and everywhere was closed and I mean everywhere. Only place open in town was the lunchbox offering rolls, it was packed with people and we decided to walk home, ended up making bacon sandwiches because we had the munchies. It's just spoils a good night out being so restricted, council needs get up to speed and start looking after their rate paying tenants. 

[dippyhippy]

Welcome Paul !!

 

It's always lovely to have new members who actually post!

 

So many have signed up lately......C'mon you guys! Get posting, and join in the debates!!

[Paul Jones]

Welcome Paul !!

 

It's always lovely to have new members who actually post!

 

So many have signed up lately......C'mon you guys! Get posting, and join in the debates!!

 

Cheers dippyhippy for the welcome, I have been reading and lurking for some time and this topic hit a nerve so had to add my bit. 

[Roger]

I'm gonna sound like a broken record here but there are no fights/scraps outside when booze is not a factor. So the clampdown is on the food after the damage has been licenced with the Council with the booze ... 

[dippyhippy]

Cheers dippyhippy for the welcome, I have been reading and lurking for some time and this topic hit a nerve so had to add my bit.

 

Well, good on you!

There's always plenty of topics being discussed, so jump right in!

[George Armstrong]

For what it's worth, stupid frustration is absolutely right. Best ask the late night refreshment house proprietors themselves. Their major concern is that a large multinational food chain opens within the same time parameters as theirs, and they lose market-share and their current business models become unviable. That's why there have been a lack of legal challenges to the restrictions imposed to date. Lastly, a visit to crime mapper or comparable A & E stats for the Night Time Economy will show that Hereford has an enviably low crime rate for Disorder in a public place compared to statistically comparator conurbations. This has got a lot to do with HAND Pubwatch, it's own Alcohol Diversion Scheme, Street Pastors, and close supervision of Licensed Premises by the relevant authorities. This comparably low level of disorder is something this City can justly be proud of, some might say.

[dippyhippy]

Evening Roger!

 

I am with you on the drinking bit.....pubs and clubs really need to tighten up on serving folk who have hit the sherry too hard. My big gripe is that folk actually seem to refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, and get so inebriated, they can cause havoc!

 

I can see where Stupid frustration is coming from on the numbers front.....does Herefords night scene actually have enough folks to sustain small, local businesses.....or would it not be worth their while with added staff costs etc.?? Then you are just left with the big players.....

 

I have no clue......!

But I am sure this debate will keep on a good while longer......after all , this topic has made HT's latest compilation list!

[dippyhippy]

And a very warm welcome to you, George!

 

Glad to see you also seem to have plenty to say for yourself!

[Paul Jones]

For what it's worth, stupid frustration is absolutely right. Best ask the late night refreshment house proprietors themselves. Their major concern is that a large multinational food chain opens within the same time parameters as theirs, and they lose market-share and their current business models become unviable. That's why there have been a lack of legal challenges to the restrictions imposed to date. Lastly, a visit to crime mapper or comparable A & E stats for the Night Time Economy will show that Hereford has an enviably low crime rate for Disorder in a public place compared to statistically comparator conurbations. This has got a lot to do with HAND Pubwatch, it's own Alcohol Diversion Scheme, Street Pastors, and close supervision of Licensed Premises by the relevant authorities. This comparably low level of disorder is something this City can justly be proud of, some might say.

 

You could also argue that everyone buggers off elsewhere at the weekend because Hereford is crap, hence the low numbers you boast about!

[George Armstrong]

Sorry you think I was boasting, Paul. I was just trying to inform the debate with some facts. Incidentally, another interesting fact is that if you research the customer base of our night time economy you'll find that we're seeing a much wider geographical pull into our Clubs. Leominster obviously, since Euphoria closed, but Crickhowell, Brecon, Abergavenny etc. Play's a big draw 'beyond the City', as is Jailhouse for it's specialist music nights and Mamma Jamma's for the same reason - all good Clubs with a very different appeal to discerning customers. This is a great debate that has run and run, but I'm not sure of the premise that people don't go out in Hereford because the Chip Shop is closed at 3am, but go to Gloucester instead. Yes, it's an inconvenience if you want some hot food. So were the running battles in Commercial Road associated with hot food eateries at 3am. Maybe people miss them - there's not been one for years... In the meantime, The solution to this is for the pre-existing hot food eateries to apply for an extension of their hours. Their willingness to do so will depend upon their worries about a major national chain e.g. McDonalds doing likewise, and in doing so changing the late night food dynamics irrevocably forever. #justsaying

[Paul Jones]

Sorry you think I was boasting, Paul. I was just trying to inform the debate with some facts. Incidentally, another interesting fact is that if you research the customer base of our night time economy you'll find that we're seeing a much wider geographical pull into our Clubs. Leominster obviously, since Euphoria closed, but Crickhowell, Brecon, Abergavenny etc. Play's a big draw 'beyond the City', as is Jailhouse for it's specialist music nights and Mamma Jamma's for the same reason - all good Clubs with a very different appeal to discerning customers. This is a great debate that has run and run, but I'm not sure of the premise that people don't go out in Hereford because the Chip Shop is closed at 3am, but go to Gloucester instead. Yes, it's an inconvenience if you want some hot food. So were the running battles in Commercial Road associated with hot food eateries at 3am. Maybe people miss them - there's not been one for years... In the meantime, The solution to this is for the pre-existing hot food eateries to apply for an extension of their hours. Their willingness to do so will depend upon their worries about a major national chain e.g. McDonalds doing likewise, and in doing so changing the late night food dynamics irrevocably forever. #justsaying

 

Some interesting details George, I hope it did not come across like I was having a pop at you because that was not my intention.

 

I have have a good read through all of the points raised in this very interesting debate and I just don't get it, yes, when everyone left the clubs all at the same time 1am and converged into Commercial Rd, I can see why fights would break out, crowds of people, drink fuelled is often a recipe for trouble, however, the laws about drinking times changed some years ago, so now people do not generally leave the clubs in droves, simply because there is no need too anymore, so personally, I think many issues discussed ended back then and ceased when they changed and relaxed the licensing laws but this around the same time that the council with police advice put the curfew in place, surely they should of done this before the law changed? I see no real need to have restrictions on hot food being available after 1.30am, I really don't.  I worked in Hereford driving taxi's for several years and gave it up only a month ago and to be honest, times have changed a lot and I see more trouble outside the DHSS than outside any hot food establishment on the weekend. 

 

Hot food places stay open in other places, so why not here?

[Biomech]

Bio - Its possible you havnt seen many fights in the streets because of the restrictions?

 

 

I don't think so no. The level of violence is the same, dare say increased, but it occurs indoors rather than outdoors now.

 

That the staggered closing times and leaving of clubs seems to have reduced violence on the streets.

 

If we conclude that violence occurs when crowds gather. Then it would make sense that the street violence that occurs now would be in places of high density. So I'm guessing that if you look at the statistics now, you'll find that street violence will be occurring around places like the Lunch Box, Subway and Petrol Station.

 

Therefore, it would make sense to allow other food shops to open, for kebabs etc, as this would increase the number of possible gathering points, ultimately reducing the density of each site and, in turn, a reduction in violent outbreaks.

 

If that one person who, in the club, wanted to punch you, still wants to punch you outside, right now, the threat still exists as everyone must go to the same food source. If there were 10 places for food to go to (over, lets say 1), the risk of the threat is diminished by 10x

 

Ya digg!

[stupidfrustration]

If that one person who, in the club, wanted to punch you, still wants to punch you outside, right now, the threat still exists as everyone must go to the same food source. If there were 10 places for food to go to (over, lets say 1), the risk of the threat is diminished by 10x

 

Ya digg!

 

 

 

 

Bio - I nearly agree with you.

 

But play this out.

 

Do you see where I am coming from in that if McDs gets to stay open till 3/4am, a majority of the customers that use the local stores will go to the national chain, sutting down the local business operators.

 

Then it will be one meeting place for hot food and fights, no choice though, but I would guess McDs would become an extention to the night out.

At least they have fixed seating.

 

But the end result would still mean - no choice.

[Paul Jones]

I don't think so no. The level of violence is the same, dare say increased, but it occurs indoors rather than outdoors now.

 

That the staggered closing times and leaving of clubs seems to have reduced violence on the streets.

 

If we conclude that violence occurs when crowds gather. Then it would make sense that the street violence that occurs now would be in places of high density. So I'm guessing that if you look at the statistics now, you'll find that street violence will be occurring around places like the Lunch Box, Subway and Petrol Station.

 

Therefore, it would make sense to allow other food shops to open, for kebabs etc, as this would increase the number of possible gathering points, ultimately reducing the density of each site and, in turn, a reduction in violent outbreaks.

 

If that one person who, in the club, wanted to punch you, still wants to punch you outside, right now, the threat still exists as everyone must go to the same food source. If there were 10 places for food to go to (over, lets say 1), the risk of the threat is diminished by 10x

 

Ya digg!

 

Absolutely spot on.

 

 

If that one person who, in the club, wanted to punch you, still wants to punch you outside, right now, the threat still exists as everyone must go to the same food source. If there were 10 places for food to go to (over, lets say 1), the risk of the threat is diminished by 10x

 

Ya digg!

 

 

 

 

Bio - I nearly agree with you.

 

But play this out.

 

Do you see where I am coming from in that if McDs gets to stay open till 3/4am, a majority of the customers that use the local stores will go to the national chain, sutting down the local business operators.

 

Then it will be one meeting place for hot food and fights, no choice though, but I would guess McDs would become an extention to the night out.

At least they have fixed seating.

 

But the end result would still mean - no choice.

 

Personally, I hope that McDonalds are allowed to open in Hereford 24/7 but I suspect it would be the Belmont drive thru, knowing Hereford council, that said, at least it would open the door for the other trades to apply for an extension of opening hours. This city seriously needs to get into the 21st century!!

[stupidfrustration]

When the Uni comes to town they will HAVE to deregulate the late night food places.

 

The whole town needs to be joined up in the thinking for the Uni.

[Roger]

Personally, I hope that McDonalds are allowed to open in Hereford 24/7 

 

McDonalds in town was refused a 4 AM licence in 2012 after objections from the Police. They raised various points including a High Court precedent.

 

Link here to press release

 

Can't see the Police changing their standpoint. If they did they would look pretty stupid.

[stupidfrustration]

Roger

 

When people change their views it can be a number of reasons ;

 

New information

Softening of attitudes

Change in culture

Lack of a problem anymore

And more reasons that I can't currently think of

 

When I change my mind on an issue it's normally to do with new information - doesn't mean that I am stupid or was stupid