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Email from Mark Schoffer

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This is an email from Mark Schoffer to Rob Hemblade

 

Dear Rob,

 

I am very sorry but this matter of sewage leaking into Belmont Pools is now getting very serious.

 

Close examination and picture "A steady volume of sewage entering Belmont Pool" shows that this is really serious on the grounds of health hazard, to children swimming, young fishermen as well as the older fishermen. Sewage pollution cuts down oxygen in water and contaminates the fish which are handled by fishermen, also our Easter European friends who like to eat them.

The other two pictures "sewage entering the lower Pond & Volume of sewage entering the pond"show how serious this matter is.

The last picture "New pipe in between the branches", I do not know what this does as nothing appears to have come out of it.

 

Cllr Powell I ask that you have this published on your website as a warning to residents who use the lower pond, incase they catch some infection, but not the lower comment re Cllr Edwards.

 

I have not included Cllr Edwards as his comments are irrelevant to the problem.

 

Mark

 

Volume of sewage entering the pond.jpg

 

New pipe in between the branches~ doing nothing.jpg

This is entering in the lower pool

Sewage entering the lower Pond.jpg

 

A steady volume of sewage entering the pond.jpg

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This is an email from Mark Schoffer to Rob Hemblade

 

 

 

post-6-13302954527327_thumb.jpg

 

post-6-13302954528047_thumb.jpg

This is entering in the lower pool

post-6-13302954529886_thumb.jpg

 

post-6-13302954530529_thumb.jpg

 

Having received the email and photo's above from Mr Schoffer asking me to put this on the website, I rang Rob Hemblade for an explanation, he advised me that

the outflow is coming from cottages above the pools who have a septic tank in land currently under the ownership of Persimmon homes. Persimmon have repaired the previously dangerous cover to the septic tank and their solicitors are pursuing the outfall matter.The person who is co-ordinating this is away but will pursue next week for the latest information. Mr Hemblade went on to say that from the pictures, the outflow does not look any worse than when the Environment Agency

tested the water a while back, he said that the area is very dry, and any wetness will stand out more, he said he would go and take a look today.He went on to say that when the Environment Agency tested the water they found low levels of polutants and because of this it was categorised it as low priority. If after today they think the situation has changed they will arrange for the water to be tested again. I advised that children are swimming in the pools, and the forcast is hot weather this weekend he said he will arrange for some tempory 'no swimming signs' to go up today so that will hopefully deter children from taking a dip.

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That is disgusting and really needs removing as it say in the email it is clearly a health hazard, unreal this is 2010 and still we live in Victorian times.

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That is disgusting and really needs removing as it say in the email it is clearly a health hazard, unreal this is 2010 and still we live in Victorian times.

The whole area needs cleaning up,I don't even take my dogs up there anymore just in case they drink the water or swim in it.Imagine children swimming in it .They could catch anything.

Putting signs up won't stop the kids swimming in it.

It needs fencing off and a dangerous keep out sign putting up.

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The whole area needs cleaning up,I don't even take my dogs up there anymore just in case they drink the water or swim in it.Imagine children swimming in it .They could catch anything.

Putting signs up won't stop the kids swimming in it.

It needs fencing off and a dangerous keep out sign putting up.

 

I think that would be a little dramatic but it certainly needs cleaning up as a matter of urgency! and the source of these sewage pipes needs stopping or redirecting to the main sewage.

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I think that would be a little dramatic but it certainly needs cleaning up as a matter of urgency! and the source of these sewage pipes needs stopping or redirecting to the main sewage.

I totally agree that is a little dramatic! the police go up to the pools to stop children swimming because of the danger of drowning, the pools are deeper than you think. Also parents should know where their children are at all times, as a recent post advised of children swimming and going onto the building site.

Read my reply Persimmon solicitors are on the case in regard to the sewage escaping into the pools, and council officers as I ask them to were going to the pools today.

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I totally agree that is a little dramatic! the police go up to the pools to stop children swimming because of the danger of drowning, the pools are deeper than you think. Also parents should know where their children are at all times, as a recent post advised of children swimming and going onto the building site.

Read my reply Persimmon solicitors are on the case in regard to the sewage escaping into the pools, and council officers as I ask them to were going to the pools today.

It's not a little dramatic if a child dies because of poisoning or drowning. :Sad_32: Lets hope the waste isn't poisonous.

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It's not a little dramatic if a child dies because of poisoning or drowning. :Sad_32: Lets hope the waste isn't poisonous.

 

As I said children should not be swimming there or for that matter in the river that is why the police move them on as our eastern europeans catch and eat the fish it is obvious it is not poisonous! so let us have no more scare mongoring please!

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As I said children should not be swimming there or for that matter in the river that is why the police move them on as our eastern europeans catch and eat the fish it is obvious it is not poisonous! so let us have no more scare mongoring please!

 

I am sorry to say but actually Councillor you are wrong, first of all I would suggest that you read what Mr Mark Scoffer actually wrote in his email again.

 

Close examination and picture "A steady volume of sewage entering Belmont Pool" shows that this is really serious on the grounds of health hazard, to children swimming, young fishermen as well as the older fishermen. Sewage pollution cuts down oxygen in water and contaminates the fish which are handled by fishermen, also our Easter European friends who like to eat them.

I am confused why Mr Mark Schoffer used the term "our Eastern European friends who like to eat them" slight discrimination tut tut tut I am sure all the fishermen possibly eat them, regardless of where they are from.

 

Raw sewage in water is very very dangerous!!

There are several diseases that are brought by sewage damage. It is important to have an idea of these diseases and the their effects to our health.

 

Public health

The general public is the one being at risk of sewage damage. It is ordinary to hear and read news about cases of hepatitis, cholera and other diseases due to exposure to untreated sewage.

 

Pathogens

Most illnesses that arise from contact with sewage are

caused by pathogens, which are biological agents that

cause disease or illness in a host. The most common

pathogens in sewage are bacteria, parasites, and viruses.

They cause a wide variety of acute illnesses including

diarrhea and infections. These illnesses can be violent and

unpleasant, but mostly pass after several days or weeks

with no lasting effects. In some cases, however, pathogens

can cause serious long-term illnesses or even death.

Certain groups such as children, the elderly, and those

with a weakened immune system are particularly vulnerable to these long-term effects.

Toxic Algal Blooms

In addition to pathogens, the high nutrient levels in untreated sewage can cause illness

when they create algal blooms. Algal blooms are rapid increases in the population of

phytoplankton algae, or single-celled plants that serve as an important food source to other

organisms. The nutrients in sewage act as fertilizers

and cause the number of algae to swell. Some algae

are toxic to humans who can come in contact with

them from eating shellfish or swimming or boating in

contaminated water. Symptoms from exposure include

memory loss, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, liver

failure, respiratory paralysis, and coma. If an affected

person does not receive proper medical attention, some

toxins can be fatal

 

This requires a remedy and soon before all sorts of agencies get involved such as the NRA for example, I am sure that would have something to say about this, especially as the ponds are so close to homes and children. Eating the fish from this water could also make you ill.

Edited by P. Rowe

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It's not a little dramatic if a child dies because of poisoning or drowning. :Sad_32: Lets hope the waste isn't poisonous.

 

A little over the top, :Blushing_32: I do not think we are at the stage of it causing death but this problem of raw human sewage in the ponds is one of some urgency, certainly it can not go ignored.

 

As for kids swimming in the ponds or rivers for that matter, its easy to say "Also parents should know where their children are at all times" but once they get to teenagers, any parent with teenage kids will know how difficult that can be, I remember the things I used to get up too when I was that age ha ha you will never stop kids swimming in water, signs saying do not swim in most cases will only encourage them.

 

The answer is to stop this sewage and have the water treated and cleaned. This whole area is in need of a good clean up from the posts that I have been reading, some of these are over 3 weeks old (tyres and old toilet) and I am amazed that NOTHING has been done to remove these from the water!!!!

Edited by P. Rowe

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Raw sewage in water is very very dangerous!!

There are several diseases that are brought by sewage damage. It is important to have an idea of these diseases and the their effects to our health.

 

I could not agree more, of course raw sewage is dangerous and poisonous especially in water, not only to public health but eco and to the fish in the pools. :Thumbs-Down:

Edited by Alex

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I am sorry to say but actually Councillor you are wrong, first of all I would suggest that you read what Mr Mark Scoffer actually wrote in his email again.

 

 

I am confused why Mr Mark Schoffer used the term "our Eastern European friends who like to eat them" slight discrimination tut tut tut I am sure all the fishermen possibly eat them, regardless of where they are from.

 

Raw sewage in water is very very dangerous!!

There are several diseases that are brought by sewage damage. It is important to have an idea of these diseases and the their effects to our health.

 

Public health

The general public is the one being at risk of sewage damage. It is ordinary to hear and read news about cases of hepatitis, cholera and other diseases due to exposure to untreated sewage.

 

Pathogens

Most illnesses that arise from contact with sewage are

caused by pathogens, which are biological agents that

cause disease or illness in a host. The most common

pathogens in sewage are bacteria, parasites, and viruses.

They cause a wide variety of acute illnesses including

diarrhea and infections. These illnesses can be violent and

unpleasant, but mostly pass after several days or weeks

with no lasting effects. In some cases, however, pathogens

can cause serious long-term illnesses or even death.

Certain groups such as children, the elderly, and those

with a weakened immune system are particularly vulnerable to these long-term effects.

Toxic Algal Blooms

In addition to pathogens, the high nutrient levels in untreated sewage can cause illness

when they create algal blooms. Algal blooms are rapid increases in the population of

phytoplankton algae, or single-celled plants that serve as an important food source to other

organisms. The nutrients in sewage act as fertilizers

and cause the number of algae to swell. Some algae

are toxic to humans who can come in contact with

them from eating shellfish or swimming or boating in

contaminated water. Symptoms from exposure include

memory loss, vomiting, diarrhoea, abdominal pain, liver

failure, respiratory paralysis, and coma. If an affected

person does not receive proper medical attention, some

toxins can be fatal

 

This requires a remedy and soon before all sorts of agencies get involved such as the NRA for example, I am sure that would have something to say about this, especially as the ponds are so close to homes and children. Eating the fish from this water could also make you ill.

 

I did not expect you to agree with what I have said.I quoted the email ALL ward councillors received, it was Mr Hemblade answer to Mark Schoffer.but I have spoken to the environment people myself and they have told me that when they checked the water recently the pollutant level was LOW, as my post said the environment agency will go out again and check the water pollution level, the people in the cottages were told about the sewage coming from their septic tank and measures were taken immediately to remedy that by Persimmon.I am also aware of what diseases you can catch from contaminated water courses. English fishermen who have fished these pools for years do not eat the fish they put them back in the water. There has been three meetings with the fishermen, with a further one next week at the pools which I will be attending,

As a corporate parent I take the matter seriously I am well aware of the dangers of children swimming, I have spoken with the police and they have gone up to the pools on several occasions at my request, I have also ask them to go to the area every day as part of their walk around duties. I am continuely in touch with the people who own the pools to clear the rubbish, and will be in touch again on Monday morning.

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It is not a case of if I disagree with you or not, as I am impartial, I was merely responding to YOUR quote below;

 

As I said children should not be swimming there or for that matter in the river that is why the police move them on as our eastern europeans catch and eat the fish it is obvious it is not poisonous! so let us have no more scare mongoring please!

 

You also misread or misunderstood what Mark Schoffer had originally written I think by the reply you gave.

 

 

I am pleased to hear that you are on the case though, hopefully this will be rectified asap.

Edited by P. Rowe

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As Councillors I am very surprised at both of your comments with regards to fisherman at the Belmont Pool.

Councillor Mark Schoffer

Sewage pollution cuts down oxygen in water and contaminates the fish which are handled by fishermen, also our Easter European friends who like to eat them.
:Surprised_32:

 

Councillor Glenda Powell

English fishermen who have fished these pools for years do not eat the fish they put them back in the water.
:Surprised_32:
As I said children should not be swimming there or for that matter in the river that is why the police move them on as our eastern europeans catch and eat the fish it is obvious it is not poisonous! so let us have no more scare mongoring please!

 

Fisherman are just fisherman! It is clear discrimination to even suggest that fisherman from any other country behave differently to fisherman that are from England or speak English!! :Thumbs-Down:

 

Mr P Rowe noticed these remarks too.

 

I took offence to these comments both in general terms and personally, particularly as my fiancée is from Europe.

 

As Councillors you represent your constituents equally! regardless of where they originate, you should know better. I will not tolerate any form of racism! so can we please refrain from such comments in the future or I will be forced to remove the posts.

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As Councillors I am very surprised at both of your comments with regards to fisherman at the Belmont Pool.

Councillor Mark Schoffer

:Surprised_32:

 

Councillor Glenda Powell

:Surprised_32:

 

Fisherman are just fisherman! It is clear discrimination to even suggest that fisherman from any other country behave differently to fisherman that are from England or speak English!! :Thumbs-Down:

 

Mr P Rowe noticed these remarks too.

 

I took offence to these comments both in general terms and personally, particularly as my fiancée is from Europe.

 

As Councillors you represent your constituents equally! regardless of where they originate, you should know better. I will not tolerate any form of racism! so can we please refrain from such comments in the future or I will be forced to remove the posts.

 

 

I am so pleased that you have acted upon this because this is totally out of order. :Thumbs-Up:

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I am so pleased that you have acted upon this because this is totally out of order. :Thumbs-Up:

 

Inexcusable. :Thumbs-Down: :Thumbs-Down:

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As Councillors I am very surprised at both of your comments with regards to fisherman at the Belmont Pool.

Councillor Mark Schoffer

:Surprised_32:

 

Councillor Glenda Powell

:Surprised_32:

 

Fisherman are just fisherman! It is clear discrimination to even suggest that fisherman from any other country behave differently to fisherman that are from England or speak English!! :Thumbs-Down:

 

Mr P Rowe noticed these remarks too.

 

I took offence to these comments both in general terms and personally, particularly as my fiancée is from Europe.

 

As Councillors you represent your constituents equally! regardless of where they originate, you should know better. I will not tolerate any form of racism! so can we please refrain from such comments in the future or I will be forced to remove the posts.

 

I am not racist and treat ALL my constituents equally and if you knew me better you would know that. may I remind you I am the ONLY councillor aswering your posts here! I have not seen any other councillor rushing to help have you? I will not be answering any more posts on this subject, but will continue to work with the environment agwncy and officers on this matter.

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I am not racist and treat ALL my constituents equally

 

Councillor you may not be racist but your comments are including those of councillor Mark Schoffer I'm afraid.

 

 

These pools are the responsibility of the parish council and the sewage issue as well as the rubbish there needs immediate attention in my opinion.

Edited by Victor Wright

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Councillor you may not be racist but your comments are including those of councillor Mark Schoffer I'm afraid.

 

 

These pools are the responsibility of the parish council and the sewage issue as well as the rubbish and rubbish there needs immediate attention in my opinion.

 

Victor - you are wrong on both counts.

 

1. Members of my family have married people who were not born here and they are not treated any differently by me to the rest of my family, therefore I would not use any coments that would upset them, as I said you don't know me so don't judge me.

 

2.The pools were bought by a partnership consisting of Herefordshire council, Hereford city council, South Wye Regeneration Partnership, and Belmont Parish council paid £7,500 toward the cost. If as you stated they were the responsibility of the parish council, then the parish chairman and councillors should be dealing with this matter. The pools were bought as a part of the Haywood Country Park, which the people of South Wye have been working towards for the past 17 years to bring it to fruition, I know what I am talking about as I have been a member of the South Wye Regeneration Partnership from the begining.

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Victor - you are wrong on both counts.

 

1. Members of my family have married people who were not born here and they are not treated any differently by me to the rest of my family, therefore I would not use any coments that would upset them, as I said you don't know me so don't judge me.

 

How can you say that? BOTH comments are discriminating!!!!! yours and Mark Schoffer that is without question, I am not going to get into an argument with you, but I would like to make you aware that I was a senior committee member of the Race Equality Foundation until 2007 so I think that qualifies me to decide if someone's comments are in a racist manner or not.

 

you can find our website here

 

I am sure that it was done in all innocence, nevertheless remarks were made that were uncalled-for. Because you have family members from other countries does not discount your initial remarks in any way so rather than your attack or poor attempt to justify it, an apology would of been more appropriate perhaps from both parties, then we could of simply moved on.

 

With regard to your second point, I apologise for being mistaken. I did not realise the pools were owned by a group of organisations, needless to say I still refer to my comments, now reworded "These pools are the shared responsibility of the group of owners and the sewage issue as well as the rubbish there needs immediate attention in my opinion"

Edited by Victor Wright

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How can you say that? BOTH comments are discriminating!!!!! yours and Mark Schoffer that is without question, I am not going to get into an argument with you, but I would like to make you aware that I was a senior committee member of the Race Equality Foundation until 2007 so I think that qualifies me to decide if someone's comments are in a racist manner or not.

 

you can find our website here

 

I am sure that it was done in all innocence, nevertheless remarks were made that were uncalled-for. Because you have family members from other countries does not discount your initial remarks in any way so rather than your attack or poor attempt to justify it, an apology would of been more appropriate perhaps from both parties, then we could of simply moved on.

 

With regard to your second point, I apologise for being mistaken. I did not realise the pools were owned by a group of organisations, needless to say I still refer to my comments, now reworded "These pools are the shared responsibility of the group of owners and the sewage issue as well as the rubbish there needs immediate attention in my opinion"

 

As I said in a previous email, I have been on the case since the first pictures appeared, I walk up to the lakes last night again to see for myself and spoke to the teenagers that were camping up there, pointing out the NO SWIMMING signs that I ask to be erected. I am in daily contact with Herefordshire council parks and countryside dept, environment agency, the regeneration partnership and Amey in regard to the rubbish, sewage etc THE MATTER IS IN THEIR HANDS!

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Inexcusable. :Thumbs-Down: :Thumbs-Down:

 

Having advised Mark Schoffer that both his and my coments are thought to be racist He said, and I quote the following from him:-

 

Rubbish! his remark is not racist as he is from a eastern european country, and the government in power refer to EU counties as 'our eastern european friends' also in their country they have a licence to fish and eat their catch.

 

If you wish to verify this you will find his address and phone number on the BR website under 'your councillors'.

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Victor Wright and admin I am afraid you are talking a load of old ribbush.

 

I, I blaim admin for not reading what they published, if now they consider that the comment of Mark Schoffer was anti recialist then he should have not published it.

The comment our Eastern European Friends is politically correct, had he named a race then it could be construded as raicialist. You only have to listen to BBC news and they use western Europeans Eastern Europeans, Americans and Aisians. Because no country is selected the above statement was politically correct. I do understand that the comment made about those people eating the fish they catch is the truth, if you don’t believe me ask any fisherman.

 

2, Victor I am afraid you have not read:-

a. RACE RELATIONS (AMENDMENT) ACT 2000

b. The Race Relations Act 1976 (Statutory Duties) order 2001

c. Equality Act 2006©

All found on the government site, http://www.opsi.gov.uk

 

So please read, digest, engage brain before you speak.

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Victor Wright and admin I am afraid you are talking a load of old ribbush.

 

I blaim admin for not reading what they published, if now they consider that the comment of Mark Schoffer was anti recialist then he should have not published it.

The comment our Eastern European Friends is politically correct, had he named a race then it could be construded as raicialist. You only have to listen to BBC news and they use western Europeans Eastern Europeans, Americans and Aisians. Because no country is selected the above statement was politically correct. I do understand that the comment made about those people eating the fish they catch is the truth, if you don’t believe me ask any fisherman.

 

2, Victor I am afraid you have not read:-

a. RACE RELATIONS (AMENDMENT) ACT 2000

b. The Race Relations Act 1976 (Statutory Duties) order 2001

c. Equality Act 2006©

All found on the government site, http://www.opsi.gov.uk

 

So please read, digest, engage brain before you speak.

 

It is the manner in which the discrimination was written and also this

English fishermen who have fished these pools for years do not eat the fish they put them back in the water.
suggesting English fisherman are somewhat different?
had he named a race then it could be construded as raicialist
does the above remark not qualify then?

 

Your wrong sorry but you are, anyone can see just by reading this that "Our Eastern European Friends and the term English" suggests that this group of people are different fisherman? I know a couple of local fisherman and they have often taken fish home to eat too.

 

Racism involves social boundary

demarcation, and a hierarchical ordering of

human beings according to phenotypical

difference, creating an “us†and a “themâ€Â.

Racism also involves the conflation of

physical difference with cultural difference,

and with certain cultural characteristics.

 

May I suggest you read this "Racialisation of central and east European migrants in Herefordshire" I have attached the pdf for you to engage your brain and read it, once your brain is fully engaged try learning to spell correctly too. (Mr Politically Incorrect)

mwp53.pdf

 

While you are at it have a read of this article, his thoughts were along the same lines as yours funny enough, politically correct!

Politically incorrect article

Edited by Victor Wright

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It is the manner in which the discrimination was written and also this suggesting English fisherman are somewhat different?

does the above remark not qualify then?

 

Your wrong sorry but you are, anyone can see just by reading this that "Our Eastern European Friends and the term English" suggests that this group of people are different fisherman? I know a couple of local fisherman and they have often taken fish home to eat too.

 

 

May I suggest you read this "Racialisation of central and east European migrants in Herefordshire" I have attached the pdf for you to engage your brain and read it, once your brain is fully engaged try learning to spell correctly too. (Mr Politically Incorrect)

 

 

While you are at it have a read of this article, his thoughts were along the same lines as yours funny enough, politically correct!

Politically incorrect article

 

I can only suggest you read the acts 2000,2001, and 2006s I quoted as they are as written by Parliament, and I will agree to disagree with your interpretation of the law.

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You can agree to disagree, but this is from the dictionary;

 

dis·crim·i·na·tion

   /dɪˌskrɪməˈneɪʃən/ Show Spelled[dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA

–noun

1.

an act or instance of discriminating.

2.

treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

 

ra·cial·ism (rÄÂ'shÉ™-lÄ­z'É™m)n.

1.An emphasis on race or racial considerations, as in determining policy or interpreting events.

 

2.Policy or practice based on racial considerations.

 

Chiefly British Variant of racism.

 

ra'cial·ist adj. & n. , ra'cial·is'tic adj.

 

Edited by Victor Wright

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It is the manner in which the discrimination was written and also this suggesting English fisherman are somewhat different?

does the above remark not qualify then?

 

Your wrong sorry but you are, anyone can see just by reading this that "Our Eastern European Friends and the term English" suggests that this group of people are different fisherman? I know a couple of local fisherman and they have often taken fish home to eat too.

 

 

May I suggest you read this "Racialisation of central and east European migrants in Herefordshire" I have attached the pdf for you to engage your brain and read it, once your brain is fully engaged try learning to spell correctly too. (Mr Politically Incorrect)

 

 

While you are at it have a read of this article, his thoughts were along the same lines as yours funny enough, politically correct!

Politically incorrect article

 

On Page 2 Leila Dawney quotes "Central and Eastern European migrants."

 

I also think that her report may have racialist tendencies quote “attracting white Christian Migrants from the new A8 European member statesâ€Â. Food for thought.

 

 

The news paper uses these words “Eastern European thieves†which is politically correct,

But by specifying Rumanian and Eastern European Gypsies, he is racialist by specifying the race and branding a type of person. The law states you cannot specify Race, Religion Colour.

 

The term Eastern European thieves as used by the news paper, or as used by Mark Schoffer “friendsâ€Â, was not offensive and was correct, also they are our friends, but they do like to eat fish like carp, were I like salmon and trout plus cod, please note carp is not sold in our shops.

 

I can only suggest you read your publications you quoted.

 

I am very sorry I may not have had the education you have had, and I know I make the odd spelling mistake, I am not perfect like you.

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I am far from perfect, but my response was a sarcastic one as you were the one who started the personal insults by saying I should engage brain before you speak.

 

I still stand by my original post that I believe there was some discrimination, maybe it was in the tone of the remarks.

 

We will have to agree to disagree I'm afraid, but nevertheless the point being that there is raw sewage contaminating the pools and it needs rectifying as a matter of urgency.

 

Councillor Schoffer has already pointed out that this is a health hazard.

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I am far from perfect, but my response was a sarcastic one as you were the one who started the personal insults by saying I should engage brain before you speak.

 

I still stand by my original post that I believe there was some discrimination, maybe it was in the tone of the remarks.

 

We will have to agree to disagree I'm afraid, but nevertheless the point being that there is raw sewage contaminating the pools and it needs rectifying as a matter of urgency.

 

Councillor Schoffer has already pointed out that this is a health hazard.

 

Victor,

 

We call it a truce, I may have jumped in with both feel with you.

 

Pax Dominus Verbiscum.

 

:Thumbs-Up:

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Glenda,

 

Has the sewage saga died a natural death, as I went round the pond yesterday evening and I can still see liquid coming out of that pipe. Admittingly a lot cleaner, but should it or should it go to a soak away.

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