flamboyant Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Totally agree GDJ well said. I am not sure Councillors or indeed Senior staff at the Council have a clear understanding of what actually constitutes bullying. Can we have some examples from posters? I will start off the list Making derogatory comments about someone behind their back either verbally or in an email, particularly if the comments relate to a persons disability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Chappell Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Hi Dippy, sorry was not privy to this however if I can I will find out more. I hope to have another meeting with The union before Christmas. I have been in a trade union for 45 years and active some of that time as an officer. I know that at least one of the group leaders meets them occasionally, but I can not speak for the others. I keep up my links as it seems to me to be important to hear every body's point of view, and although I can get one version of an event in the Barrels on a Friday night, it may not tally with a more informative version, without the beer, on a week day!! On the subject of bullying, it can take many shapes from the odd word to physical abuse. Ignoring someone to forcing them to do things against their will. Across the county there is some great work going on to try to stop Domestic Violence, a form of bullying, from the police, Women's Aid. Voluntary organisations etc. the problem is of course, that it is often a hidden problem, no one wants to say they are being bullied, not least men, so getting to the problem and solving it can take a long time. It is difficult to define bullying sometimes. Is a patient in hospital being bullied if they can never reach the cup of tea placed just out of reach for them? Is a woman told by her partner that she can not go out with friends to night bullying? A boss refusing to allow time off for staff to see child's nativity play at school? Wrong type of desk provided for staff and constant refusal to do something about it, is that bullying? In my book the answer to all above is yes but others may have a different opinion. I hate bullies with a vengeance as I have seen it and experienced it at first hand at work and else where. I hope it is not too prevalent in the Council, but if the Council reflects some conversations I have heard in pubs, clubs, in people's homes or on the streets, then possibly it is going on. It needs all of us to stand up to bullies as I have never met one who is not also a coward. Sorry to go on Dippy, but this is a subject close to my heart. Hope you have a good weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Nicely put Councillor and some very good examples, which I'm guessing are from your personal experiences Can I ask what you would do in the following situation If you knew of a potential danger in your work place that could injure someone and you'd reported it to your managers who did nothing. Would you - Forget it and accept the danger was to remain and wait for someone to be injured, so you could say I told you so Or Continue to pursue the danger no matter what the personal cost to yourself might be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Hi Chris, once again, thanks for the response. It is heartening to see that at least one councillor is willing to listen, and engage with a debate as sensitive as this. I suspect that many others have read this thread, but for whatever reason, have chosen to remain silent. Talking about, and acknowledging that we do indeed have these problems is a good first step forward to stopping bullying in any form from continuing. I completely agree, whatever form bullying takes - it is never acceptable. And to those who don't believe we have an issue, I would say open your eyes, listen to your staff - sticking your head in the sand and hoping it will all just go away will not work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubique Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Interesting subject - I joined the Boys Regiment Royal Artillery at Bradbury Lines at the age of 15 , I am now way past three score and ten , i can name the people that were bullies all those years ago - both Boy Soldiers and the Permanant Staff , likewise when I attend our annual Reunion others of the same era as me can also name the bullies within the Regiment . It gets harder to remember names of friends from that era. I have learnt from a reliable source that some of the bullies had what was coming to them later in life ! I accept that not right but it's what happened . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Chappell Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Hi Flam, sorry in delay replying to your question but been having a weekend off with my partner! I hate Christmas shopping! I never give up if I see a wrong or injustice. Sometimes it takes me longer than I would like. When I was in my twenties I was branch secretary of my local National Union of Agricultural & Allied Workers, now part of Unite. I worked on a farm and I discovered that one of my members aged 80 and had lived in the same tied cottage, and worked for the same farmer for over 50 years. Farmer wanted his cottage and had given him a month to move out. That is being a bully so I went and told the farmer so and tried to help my Member. My employer sacked me as he knew the other farmer,and I lost my home too! My then wife was not that impressed at losing her home, and it taught me to take my time, learn who you are dealing with, before you go into battle. It is the way I try to conduct my life as a councillor too. Sometimes it is best to stay quiet until you have everyone in your sights! Now I am retired, slowed by arthritis, I take my time more but my fight to stop bullies and injustice is as intense as ever. Hope this answers your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenda Powell Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Dippy, I have not got a personal email address it got scammed, therefore if you sent me a PM I would not of received it to answer what you may have wrote. I refer you back to my post 87, where I advised I was helping an employee, (read what I said) I have not heard back from the employee after my help and advice despite writing to them therefore I do not know the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Ah, I see. Thanks for letting me know that Glenda. I still think it's extremely important that councillors make it their business to follow this up,and find out the outcome for this group of people. It may be that others within the council are watching this thread, and waiting to find out if any sort of protection has been offered to these employees. Perhaps if they have that reassurance, they too may feel they can come forward. Something tells me this is not an isolated case...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenda Powell Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Apparently this employee was bullied but they reported it, the culprits left the council last year, but it started up again from where the others left off, hence why the employee came to me and I looked into it. I know that the employee has been off sick because they told me as I said still waiting for the outcome I took it to the highest level when I ask the employee if they wanted me to do anymore they said no, I had given them the confidence to fight it on their own, they went to unison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdj Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 GVP, I think your post contains too much specific and identifying information. Can you remove it and send a pm to Drippy. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenda Powell Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 gdi, I was very careful what I said, not for them to be identified for instance I have not said if the employee was male or female and did not say what type of bullying they encountered. I would not say who the person is not even in a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 You've got to be so careful on this issue of identifying people. The ICO themselves believe employees are at risk of being identified should Herefordshire County Council declare e.g. the following: £345,678 That's it. Were you waiting for some more? Well, you're out of luck. I raised this issue one day last week in a chat on the phone with Andrew White, whose name appears at the bottom of their Decision Notices. I gave him a hypothetical scenario... 1. Council declares £345,678 2. (Mysterious process) 3. Persons are identified I asked him to explain the mysterious process. He couldn't. He waffled. I gave him another chance to explain it. He waffled some more. I thanked him and put the phone down. I then quickly came to the conclusion that he's paid very well in public money for being involved in, conducting and defending a very large scam on the UK public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdj Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 gdi, I was very careful what I said, not for them to be identified for instance I have not said if the employee was male or female and did not say what type of bullying they encountered. I would not say who the person is not even in a PM. OK, Thank you for considering it - I was just concerned that some of the details you described could be used to identify the individual. I wasn't suggesting you tell Dippy the name - just that the kind of details you mention in order to explain what you are doing behind the scenes should probably be limited to PM messaging rather than being on the forum. Keep up the good work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby47 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Actually, the mighty Cardin is slightly wrong with his figure. The actual cost for the entire package thus far is a little short of Three Hundred and Seventy Thousand Pounds. Yes! Three Hundred and Seventy Thousand Pounds of public money. Gone in the blink of an eye, secreted forever, so they hope, and never ever brought to the attention of the public. And where is it accounted for? Buried deep beneath a pile of mumbo jumbo jargon that's designed and intended to confuse any of us from chasing the chain. The very same Modus Operandi used by the crooked accountant who misappropriates funds from a client is being used to hide the truth from you. There's very little difference. The intention is to secrete and confuse. Oh they'll sack a humble employee who works down the recycling centre for retrieving a chair from a skip, taking it home and using it for themselves and honourable claim, 'this is a form of theft', but they'll turn a blind eye to this. Ain't it madness. And, given the seriousness of this bullying saga, what has the Chief Executive ever said to explain to us why all this was done and why it was so necessary? Absolutely nothing! He doesn't care and nobody surrounding him cares that we view them all with deep suspicion. They don't care because they know that nobody, other than us, is ever going to challenge their behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 And we must continue to challenge, continue to ask the awkward questions and continue to make a nuisance of ourselves. If any political party knocks on my door, in the run up to next Mays election, I shall be inviting them in, putting on the kettle and giving them a good grilling on all that has occurred. And I shall want answers....not fobbing off. This story has been out there for quite some time, and nothing has been said, by any party to reassure me, that this situation is resolved, and cannot happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Sadly, due to circumstances beyond my control, this Hereford Council bullying issue couldn't be taken to tribunal, but here's a pretty much identical FOI request, made to Wirral Council in 2013: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/payouts_to_officers_of_wirral_co Unlike Herefordshire, this was apparently a 'one on one' bullying situation involving either two senior officers or a councillor and one senior officer. And here's a date for your diaries: Thursday 16th April 2015. (Venue uncertain) This is the date of a First Tier Information Tribunal regarding the matter of £48,000 in public money paid across to a senior officer at Wirral Council around October 2013. There was no investigation, no councillor scrutiny; no apparent assessment of detriment suffered; the person bullied is still there; the person doing the bullying remains in situ. So the payment appears to be some form of 'damages'. The CEO at the time, Graham Burgess, sent a global email to all 66 councillors which appeared to suggest no councillor was involved and that the matter was all above board. The Council Leader refused to address questions that were put to him in the chamber, instead referring the questioner to the CEO's email. I'm the appellant, versus the ICO, 1st respondent, backed by Wirral Council, 2nd respondent. Representing the council will be top information rights barrister Robin Hopkins of KBW solicitors in that London. It seems money is no option when it comes to swaying a Tribunal into believing that it was right to: put personal privacy ahead of the public interest; not allow public oversight to get a look in; pay £48,000 to an anonymous female senior officer; deter councillors from scrutinising what was going on; omit all reference to the payment in the declared annual accounts not release any media statement to the local press Here's the Wirral Leaks report on this from October 2013: https://wirralleaks.wordpress.com/2013/10/05/bullying-is-an-ugg-ly-business/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Hi Paul, isn't this the case that Frank Field MP got involved with?? Our own MP appears to be extraordinarily quiet on the recent goings on ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby47 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 It is Dippy. The very same one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Thanks for that,Bobby! I am now reassured that my addled memory is currently functioning correctly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Hi Dippy. I'd advise you not to take everything you read in the papers about Frank Field on face value. As an MP since 1979, he knows how to seduce weak people in the pisspoor media. If you knew the truth about his involvement in this case, you'd be doing backward somersaults for a good while in order to catch up with the point at which your perceptions all went horribly wrong. The true story behind his "support" of the Wirral Highways Department whistleblowers is absolutely staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 You'll be delighted to know then Paul, that the information I recall reading came from your excellent blog! I was quite astonished to hear the twists and turns. Most illuminating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Well done Paul for taking in the ICO, looking forward to seeing the outcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I have it on very good authority that the bullying of disabled persons / £360,000+ pay offs to abusers / whistleblowing case at the council may be coming to a head. My reason for posting tonight is to pass on the news that steps may have been taken by our hero to go 'wired for sound' during all of the interviews with the council's TOP movers and shakers, both elected and non-elected (some of whom may be reading this). Covert recording using tiny concealed devices is gaining an overdue foothold in this brave new connected world of ours, and is making positive inroads where it is needed most i.e. in council directors' / leaders' offices; union HQs; but most importantly of all, professionally prepared transcripts can be produced as compelling evidence of the malpractice that these public servants love indulging themselves in. Here's just one link showing how an employee made several recordings - but they weren't admissible in court because transcripts weren't provided. http://www.mils.co.uk/key-cases/20-key-cases/605-the-admissibility-of-covert-recordings-in-the-employment-tribunal But I don't think that mistake would be made again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted February 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 In fact, given the gravity of these issues: the bullying of disabled employees the cleansing, false vindication and paying off of the bullies the seniority of the persons involved in what seems to be a case of "reputation management shall sweep all before it" the stifling of public oversight ...I'd be pressing my local MP to seek a wide-ranging Public Inquiry to get to the bottom of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Covertly recorded meetings? Good on them! I am delighted they had the foresight to do this. Too often we see those in the wrong tie themselves up in knots, as they try to justify their lies, deeds and actions in an attempt to wriggle off the hook. They aren't interested in actually addressing these very serious issues, they just want to pass the buck, blame the whistleblower and cover their own sorry backsides. I hope these meetings HAVE been recorded. I hope the evidence IS irrefutable, and I hope more than anything that those responsible for wrecking an individuals life, who was only ever trying to do the right thing, are publicly named, shamed held accountable for their actions, and ultimately sacked. Perhaps now those responsible will be having the sleepless nights, after being the cause of so many for this brave whistleblowing individual. Karma truly can be a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Paul you would have more chance of an audience with the Queen than you would with our local MP! There was once a thread on the voice with identity pictures but I can't remember what it was called! Dippy where are those pictures ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 On the Autumn Watch thread, Flam. I've bumped it back to the front page for you! ( Post number 11.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Well done Dip I had no idea where to start I knew you'd know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Paul curtesy of Dippy, we have located him, 2nd row third picture. http://brianrwilliams.bigcartel.com/category/extinct-birds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted February 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Thanks Flam and Dippy. A very senior councillor was spotted in the wild some time ago here on Wirral. This chance meeting produced a recorded conversation that started a chain of events which became known as... WIRRALGATE Fast forward to a Wirral estate and a wizened Councillor who conspiratorially whispers about suspended Directors and the missing millions and click goes the record button….. ...the implications of this on Wirral are huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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