Bilbobobby

Here's a fact. As at this time there are at least 20 'trolley' sellers in town selling glow sticks & wands all static and all with signs saying 'official lights-on seller'. Asked a chap who I know involved in the Christmas lights turn-on 'are they licensed' choice of 2 answers - its not the 'yes' one... point is lost revenue for local shops and council - who we know are struggling and in dire straights (great band by the way..) No doubt will be fixture every Wednesday 'til Christmas (but not in Maylords or new complex) Bah humbug!

Chuggers - charity street collectors are a pain. They should be regulated. The council can do this - the just don't have the bottle to do it.

My point is about the impact on the local shops and the fact that the 'trolley sellers' turn up and operate without paying business rates or even a token licence fee to the council. So if posters are happy to let it go and see more local shops struggle/fail/close I'll close the post.

It's that time of the year when the city is decended upon by the various seasonal street traders who take up position in the High Street (and nearby) selling 'tat' from a shopping trolley or store combi trolley. Do you think its right that they are allowed to do this - bearing in mind they do not pay for a street traders licence from the council, pay no buisness rates to the county and are likely taking away trade from the various shops in and near the city centre? I've asked the question of the council, who say that they have a pedlars licence and as long as they keep moving and don't cause an obstruction, its okay for them to trade. Now my understanding of a pedlers licence (certificate) is that it is issued by the police and it allows an individual to travel from town to town - door to door on foot - selling goods. 2 'traders' have taken up a position at the junction of the High Street and Widemarsh Street and guess what - they don't move until they pack up for the day. My point is unless they are paying a licence fee to the council - as the many do who run the market stalls in High Town - they should not be operating in the city taking trade away from the shops. AND they are not allowed to trade in Gloucester, Cheltenham or Worcester and I would guess never in the Maylord Orchards or Old Livestock Market complexes. So....

Removed

To assist The shop is still owned by the same man who runs it as an off licence. His intention is to close the off licence and re open as a take away. A couple of facts - The applicant applied for a 0130hrs close time - he did not want to go later.. (I asked him) As the applicant agreed the police representations, the police did not attend the hearing (I found the decision via this forum as the council web site is not up to date) The police did NOT object to the application and purely sought to apply conditions to promote the licensing objectives The police did NOT ask for door staff on a Friday and Saturday night - they asked for door staff on a 'risk assessed basis' - those with a little bit of knowledge regarding risk assessments will understand what this means The decison to require door staff as a matter of course was that of the committee I know that if other applications come in for similar venues in the city centre and especially within the CIZ (see previous post to understand what this means), the police will look at the application on a case by case process and will make necessary representations. It would be highly unlikely that the police would ask for door staff as a matter of course - and would seek the risk assessment process The decison of the committee can be challenged through an appeal to the magistrates court by the council as they objected to the application. They have 21 days to do this. It would be wrong to undermine the appeal process by discussing this recent application in too much detail..

I've only just read this debate - some of it is of interest. A lot of the opinions stated are inaccurate and to be honest a personal attack on organisation(s) by some who may have a personal gripe to air. However to assist - and this is fact... 1. Late night refreshment (LNR) is a licensable activity that requires a licence to sell HOT food between the hours of 11pm and 5am. 2. Any other sale of HOT food outside of these times does NOT require a licence 3. Sale of COLD food is not a licensable activity so therefore does NOT require a licence 4. All licenses are issued by Herefordshire Council 5. Any application for a LNR licence, once accepted by the council, is subject to a 28 day consulatation period that will allow responsible authorities and interested parties to make necessary representations - these can be against the application or in the case of a responsible authority (if they do not object to the application) representations (control measures) to promote the licensing objectives. 6. Any objection against the application has to be based on verifiable evidence (not opinion) 7. Any representation to have conditions applied to the licence have to be proportionate, achievable and enforceable. 8. The city centre is subject to a cumulative impact policy (zone)(CIZ) due to the contentration of licensed premises and the level of crime and disorder. This is the council's policy. They own it. It is supported by evidence submitted by the police. 9. The police do not have a blanket policy for licensed premises. This is unlawful. Each application is dealt with seperately and on its own merits 10. The CIZ only establishes a 'rebuttable presumption' with the consequence that any new application will be refused UNLESS the applicant can show how they will promote the licensing objectives, and consequently therefore to allow the application would not undermine the CIZ 11. If there are representations against an application it will end up at a licensing regulatory hearing, the panel of which make their mind up - based on what evidence is presented to them That's it a nut shell... In summary, there is no reason why any premises cannot apply for an LNR licence to sell hot food in Hereford City Centre after 1:30am, as long as they can evidence how they are promoting the licensing objectives and consequently how the grant would not undermine the CIZ. Simples...

I can assure you that the police are not reluctant to make arrests - what they need is the evidence and the 'necessity test' before they feel the collar and take them into custody. I will put my head up and say I am a retired police officer who did most of my service working shifts and response in this county and I am not too far detached from the reality of the issues to second guess what is happening. The street drinkers are part of todays society - earlier this morning I saw 3 of the usual suspects sat on the raised flower bed wall near to St Peters Church = early morning free breakfast = no issues with them at this time, plus no alcohol visible. Todays 'buried' articale in the Hereford Times explains the police approach, unfortunately the press have used the headline of 'retaking the streets', get real this is not down town Basra... A minor problem that has developed into a local community issue is being dealt with through a mult i agency approach. There will be a number who don't want and will not comply. Tough. They will either behave, leave the city or eventually go to prison. The proof will be in the pudding, measure the success of the police approach through your own observations, give it time and then post an honest view whether you are feeling safe in the city Lastly google the Police Crime and Anti Social Behaviour act (or something like that) that is being introduced in October this year - this will stream line ASB systems and will allow a fast track approach to be applied

Good to chat, putting a point of view cross, putting the world to right and taking the opportunity to slag off fellow posters - I think not!! So back to the actual post. Its not a Baptist Church issue - its a Castle Green, Duck Pond, Old Burial Ground, Cathedral... so on, so on issue.... These people need some help before they become another statistic of death through drink, drugs and neglect. 5 deaths in the last 12-18 months - see Hereford Times for details (usually hidden on page 76 in a corner). How many more do we need.. The police do need to step up the mark - which they are doing - as do other agencys, such as Homelessness, Drugs Out Reach and the council. The police do put a title on things, so what, better that saying 'policing patrol, show a presence, giving reassurance, answering tourist questions and dealing with alcohol anti social behaviour' a short title gives focus. Things are getting better - its a fact. Vocal minority - one or two - are being dealt with by the police in a robust positive way. Others seem to be getting the message. Long may it last! So what next - sort out the government reshuffle, problems in the middle east, repair my damaged leg (getting old) - I don't think so, but I know that if we all deal with the minority of persistant trouble makers, promote the city, we may all realise that despite all these whoe's we might start to enjoy the sunshine across our glorious county..

Well said. This is about street drinkers, the why's, how's and when... This is not about personalities or the Baptist Church so lets debate and move on.AND change the header to homeless problem street drinkers

Now I have some insight and knowledge of what this issue is about and what steps are being taken to address the attitude and behaviour of those who are commonly known as 'street drinkers'. 1. The city centre is covered by a number of orders that prohibit street drinking. These orders are owned by the council and are currently subject to review. The purpose of the orders is not to stop decent members of society from having a drink in areas where you normally stop and picnic, they are in place to tackle the behaviour of the minority who cause acohol related anti social behaviour. Most of the city is covered by orders - plus other areas across the county. What is NOT covered is are the Bishops Meadows and King George Playing fields. This does not prevent the police from dealing with people who act in a anti social way. 2. To enforce the no street drinking orders, the signs saying there is an order have to be in place - this is being addressed by the council. 3. The problems in the city centre are down to a group of between 5 and 15 (depending on the location and time of day). Majority are local and many have long term alcohol, drugs and mental health issues. Many are alcoholics, most are homeless and all need some sort of help and support - again down to the many agencies who are funded to tackle this work. 4. A lot of the locations where they hang around are church based - why - mainly because its warm, they can get shelter and can get food. Churches are for all - good and bad - and as such the churches will tolerate a lot more than most, but will not allow drunk abusive behaviour which stops others from entering their premises. 5. The police know who cause the problems, they tackle and challenge them on a regular basis. Many are arrested, charged, kept for court and released within a short period by the courts - this is out of the control of the police. 6. The police and are taking out anti social behaviour orders if all else fails (and it will because some have no regards to others and cannot change their behaviour). These orders will and do control the behaviour of many. It's all about changing attitude 7. The level of alcohol related anti social behaviour is low compared to other cities (or towns with a big church) - but it is right to say that what is happening is of concern and does impact on businesses and the public 8. The police and council are working with the licensing trade to ensure that alcohol is sold responsibly - now that's a big word that could be subject of a wider debate! 8. I know there is a lot more happening to tackle this problem - a minority of the public (some of those who post on this site included) should not automatically 'judge a book by its cover' and should look to help instead of protraying the city centre as out of control etc... This city should be promoted and looked as a jewel in the county - don't let the behaviour of a minority cloud the need to show that Hereford is safe to live, work and visit. Its a fact....!

You will be very surprised by the actual number of genuine homeless people in the city - no more than 20 at any given time. However it will be correct to say that there are a number of 'sofa surfers' who don't have a permanent address and rely on the generousity of friends and family. What there is, is an increase in street drinkers who look as if they haven't had a wash for a long time, carry their wordly belongings with them and gather in groups in local parks - or areas not covered by the city CCTV - to drink and most times become a nuisance. What can be done - some will say hound them out of the city - that won't work - many have mental, drug and drink issues and they do need some sort of support. They need somewhere to stay, since the church night shelter closed for the winter, there is nowhere for them to go - except the occassional friends home, or mostly a shop doorway, rear of office buildings and sometimes in your garden shed (it does happen). So something needs to be done, the police have a role, but it has to be down to the joined up partnership approach with social services, other agencys and voluntary groups. Tell your councillor and get them to do something to sort this out...