WirralPC Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I think you're missing a barn door with a cricket bat here Sebastian. If you were a £67,070 per year salaried MP, would you and your soon-to-be-barrister assistant be able to respond with a Yes / No to a direct question about.... BULLYING AT YOUR LOCAL COUNCIL ...or would you be a total incompetent who'd either forgotten about it or not been told about it by your extremely capable assistant? Yes or No was the answer I was seeking. Which should be very easy to deal with for an intelligent person like Jesse Norman. p.s. this aint bullying. I've lost two jobs through bullying and I can therefore state from hard-won experience that it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebaileyus_PhD Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 i think Jesse and/or amy quite rightly identified that there was no right answer he could have given to you. A no makes him incompetent, a yes makes him one of the uncaring elite, and of course a lie would eventually come back to haunt him. bear in mind he is no longer our MP, and is continuing to do many of the associated duties he has since been discharged of being required to carry out as MP because he want to see them through. a lot of his access to information and so fourth has been restricted since the commons closure this last month. i have no doubt he is looking into this as we type, thats just who he is. One last point, bullying is not an objective issue, it a subjective experience. thus, while you may not perceive your posts as threatening or intend bullying, it can none the less be the case. your assurance it isnt bullying is the least reliable factor in the equation, not that im calling you a liar. i recently read a study of video game abuse hurled at each other by players on the same team. when investigated by academics it turned out that the bullies were trying to pass advice to teammates (just badly). none the less, the teammates experienced bullying. i find one of my colleagues to have a very threatening style of written word, hes just very blunt in his evaluation and i perceive it poorly. i find your responses phrased in such a way that if i were to meet you face to face i would feel threatened. the burden that comes with a working knowledge of psycho-linguistics :) Seb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Seb I applaud you for getting involved in the discussion and it is laudable that you jump to the defence of Jesse Norman. However, I suspect the Conservatives will seek to silence you shortly. In Mr Cardin's defence he is defending what is an emotive subject and no one could question the tenacity with which he campaigns for the rights of disabled people. There is a limit to how many times someone can bang their head against a brick wall before you succumb to the urge to blow a fuse. I would certainly remember if I was told that a Senior Manager of Herefordshire Council had threatened a disabled employee. I think it's unfair to label someone a bully for trying to get to the truth, did Jesse Norman simply expect him to accept his response and cease pursuit of the issue? Politicians will invariably face the wrath of the public if they are complacent in performing the duty they are duly paid for. If Jesse Normans email accounts are not accessible how can Mr Cardin forward the information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 ...a yes makes him one of the uncaring elite... Seb I've stripped out all the surplus material and distilled it down to one statement which may approximate to the truth. I like my politicians to speak the truth when first approached, rather than having to painfully grind it out of them over several days, weeks or months, whilst riding a rollercoaster of posturing, bogus indignation and feigned victimhood. Enjoy your freedom of speech while it lasts. I imagine Jesse will be wanting to keep control and encourage any relatively inexperienced colleagues to remain firmly "on message". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Keep at it Paul. I am sure there are many folks who are very grateful for your tenacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Oh... and the Conservative whips who, when they're not blackmailing or coercing tory MPs who've committed "indiscretions" with rent boys or prostitutes, are often called upon to "lean on" their own fellow members to obtain the required number of votes and force through often callous, often destructive legislation. Jesse Norman is a willing participant in all this - one of the most aggressive, corrupted, out of whack bearpits in Christendom. Feigning refined sensibilities all of a sudden just won't cut the mustard with an intelligent but fed up electorate. Sorry for going slightly off message Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebaileyus_PhD Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Seb I applaud you for getting involved in the discussion and it is laudable that you jump to the defence of Jesse Norman. However, I suspect the Conservatives will seek to silence you shortly. In Mr Cardin's defence he is defending what is an emotive subject and no one could question the tenacity with which he campaigns for the rights of disabled people. There is a limit to how many times someone can bang their head against a brick wall before you succumb to the urge to blow a fuse. I would certainly remember if I was told that a Senior Manager of Herefordshire Council had threatened a disabled employee. I think it's unfair to label someone a bully for trying to get to the truth, did Jesse Norman simply expect him to accept his response and cease pursuit of the issue? Politicians will invariably face the wrath of the public if they are complacent in performing the duty they are duly paid for. If Jesse Normans email accounts are not accessible how can Mr Cardin forward the information? theyll never silence me!!!! my point about access to various things was more directed toward his investigatory powers at the moment, he has no more standing (if the council chose to be obtuse) than you or i do right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi Seb, I love your enthusiasm, and I think it's great that you have joined this thread......I sense many are actively trying to avoid it! However sadly, we have seen this before..... and they will reign you in. This subject seems to be toxic. Everybody says they want to get to the bottom of it, but several shovels have been handed out over the past eighteen months / two years, and it would seem nobody actually wants to dig. I suspect because they know what they would find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Thank you Seb. Jesse Norman is standing for re-election and if that happens his 'powers' to effect change will be restored. If he wants to be taken seriously then I would expect him to add the attached to his 'to do list' he would gain a lot more respect by pledging to do that, rather than throwing stones to deflect. A clever man would have seized the opportunity, after all, evil can only flourish if good men do nothing? If I thought I had made mistake I would apologise profusely and do everything in my power to put it right, but hey ho, I'm not very bright. Dippy well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby47 Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Well they say 'you reap what you sew' and if that's true, and I'm sure it bloody well is, the humble and lowly paid Council staff of Hereford are now frantically harvesting the fruits of the nice, cozy and fluffy lovely relationship that the Union and the hierarchy have been enjoying for far to long. They're all to bloody close! Yes, at the heart of all this is the Union have become seduced by the glitz of power and a mindset that lays the blame at the bullied, the disabled, the poorly paid and all those, and there are many, who simply don't bloody matter. That's it really. It's nothing else. It's simply one man or woman elected to be a Shop Steward desperately wanting to be bloody liked and craving approval from those who wield the power. It's a perfectly natural human trait that should be managed and controlled. The truth is that the Union staff have not managed that weakness, they've certainly not succeeded in controlling it and now we are where we are, completely buggared up. Course, when I say 'we', it ain't me, you and anybody else who bothers to read this bucket of sludge I've just turned out, it's the Whistleblower and all those at the bottom of the food chain who pay their monthly subscriptions happy and bloody content in the knowledge that some Union bigwig has managed to crawl up the legs of Geoff Hughes and is currently perched on his lap squeezing the blackheads from his rosy red cheeks. Bloody hell! And finally, this bloody thing about Cardin bullying Jess Norman. Where's all that come from? Merely posing a sensible question for a noble purpose and then having to ask it again and again doesn't make you a bully. A pain in the backside perhaps but to throw the term bully out simply to stop somebody finding the truth is the last desperate act of someone who knows he was told about the bullying, he's found the email informing him of the tragic events within Plough Lane and like all who are faced with the notion, 'Oh sh.it I was told and I didn't do anything about it', he's understandably trying to manage the reputation and rid himself of his tormentor. And that's it. Nothing more and certainly nothing less. It's all perfectly natural human behaviour that develops when people with very different responsibilities become to bloody friendly with one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Thanks Bobby. Great to have your backing on this one. You have this wonderful knack of revealing the skulduggery, cutting away the flim flam, and exposing the controlled show (to misquote Malcolm X). No word yet from Jesse Norman. I'll start issuing daily updates from now on, just to let voters know where we're up to on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'm looking forward to reading extracts from those tapes which I'm told are on route to the voice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'm sure there will be many folk who will want to read the next instalment of this saga. It's probably fair to say, that some may be "anxiously awaiting" the next chapter...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 This is getting to sound like Watergate... Intriguing. I wonder who's the Mark Felt on the inside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Boggs Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 I'm looking forward to reading extracts from those tapes which I'm told are on route to the voice! Tapes are a bit old hat these days. Aren't they more likely to be sound files (WAVs, MP3s etc)? Possibly obtained using a clandestine recording device like a spy pen. They're readily available from Amazon, Ebay etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Whatever device was used...... I'm looking forward to reading the transcription! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralPC Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Whatever device was used...... I'm looking forward to reading the transcription! Audio recordings; verbatim transcriptions, to court standard; a healthy and justified disdain for corrupted, power abusing officials; throw in a dash of courage and your destiny moves back under your control. Which is where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Boggs Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Maverick the Council have a Whistleblowing Policy and a Code of Conduct, the following is an extract from the Code of Conduct. The Whistleblowing Policy says something about unethical conduct of officers can be reported under the WB policy. So not sure why you were told it wasn't a PID. Any serious concerns that employees have about any aspect of service provision or the conduct of Officers or Members of the Council or others acting on behalf of the Council can be reported under this Policy. This may be about something that: a makes Officers feel uncomfortable in terms of known standards, their experience or the standards they believe the Council subscribe to; or b is against the Council’s Constitution and policies; or c falls below established standards of practice; or d amounts to improper conduct. A little bird tells me that a recent bidder for a Council contract was allowed to submit their tender after the deadline date. This was after a Councillor had "a word" with the Council's Solicitor. I suspect that this doesn't qualify as one of the "exceptional circumstances" in the Council's contract standing orders that permits a late bid. Might be worth making making an FOI request to ascertain the contract, the firm, and the name of the Councillor as well as any connection between them, plus the written reasons for allowing the late bid (if any). Could give you some ammo to chuck back at them Maverick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Very useful titbit of information there, Pete. I'm always interested to hear what little birds have to say! I'm glad you've added this to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Hereford Heckler 22 hrs · Are you a union rep with news about your workplace? A council employee who wants to blow the whistle? Or just a humble earwigger with a bit of gossip? We want to hear what’s going on from Leintwardine to Llangarron … and beyond. If you’re interested in writing for us, or just have a bit of a tip-off, then email kay.bulstreet@hotmail.co.uk with a brief pitch for the story you intend to write. Like · Comment · Share · 921 9 people like this. 1 share John Hales Might have something for you to investigate if you're up for it? Like · Reply · 20 hrs Hereford Heckler Send us an email, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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