Roger

Glenda, may I ask then, what was the crunch point for the committee for allowing cold food but not hot food? Because, everything thing else about this topic becomes irrelevant as soon as you allow one type but not the other of the same thing.

 

What I mean is that whether the food is hot or cold is inconsequential - so the decision to place a curfew on hot food suppliers must have a  specific argument that favours cold food. What was it?

I can answer that one. The Licensing Act 2003 was written in Westminster and in it there is provision that you need a Licence to sell hot food/drink between 11 pm and 5 am. Cold food was not included. Nothing to do with the Council other than they can choose to issue the Licence or not. They haven't made the rule (the Govt. did) ~ they just apply it. There are a few exceptions to needing a licence. One of them is getting a hot coffee from a machine at a garage if you operate it yourself for instance. Hence the 24/7 coffee machine at the BP garage on Commercial Road.

When the Act was written I've no doubt the Govt. looked at the general situation at the time. If takeaways were open late I would suggest the vast majority were selling hot food at the time. And I can't recall any anecdotal reports from 10 years ago suggesting that there were problems outside late night sandwich shops. 

Thank you for the link to the map megilleland. Looking at the yellow sections off Aylestone Hill (land with low/minor constraints) it would appear that building is pretty much certain on a small piece of land virtually opposite the path entrance to Aylestone Park. The larger yellow bit is the large cricket pitch behind Aylestone Park. 

Well I expected that reaction from what I have said, so you didn't disappoint me! I am not penalising anyone or any fast food outlet, it is not MY SINGLE decision. Read my post again I have said the minority spoils it for the rest, that said, the responsibility lies with the person and his/her behaviour, and how do you think the police find out about trouble in the food outlets its because most of the time the police are called by the propriator. So don't shoot the messanger (ME) because you don't like what I have said!!!

I agree that you and I and everyone else are answerable for our own behaviour but we are on about how the late night economy works here and that, to a large degree, is affected by National rules that you seem to conveniently ignore Glenda. In a Utopian World everyone would go out and have a couple of shandies and go home for a Horlicks but that doesn't happen. So we have the 2003 Licensing Act which has Section 141 which prohibits drunks getting served and 142 which stops you and me buying a drink for a drunk. All of which is being addressed by shutting down all chip shops at 1.30 am. And the penny doesn't seem to have dropped that these food outlets are probably having to call the cops for customers because of the illegal activities of the establishment they just left. It's not too dissimilar to blaming a domestic abuse victim for getting hit. It's not something they caused but blame them anyway.

And Denise ~ I'm not having a go at Councillor VP in order to cause trouble, or just to pick an argument for the sake of it. I think her entrenched views about 'it's the drinkers' fault' so we got to shut the chip shops is flawed and wrong. Plus shifting the decision onto the whole Committee and therefore diluting the blame is laughable.   

In the absence of seeing the plan alluded to then this sounds like the fields opposite Ayestone Park and The Swan pub. ie towards The Lugg River ... 

I know the situation around here won't change anytime soon as this 1.30 am cut off has been in place for years. But to me there seems to be some sort of tacit acceptance by the Council that people will go to these late watering holes and get smashed regardless and so they've just given in. All it takes is for a couple of Committee members to stand outside (insert your own venue name here) at closing time and if it's quite obvious that an unacceptable number of patrons are leaving three sheets to the wind then the Licensee should be called in to explain him or herself. And they can leave with a piece of paper saying they've got to close at 11pm for a month if needs be. This 1.30 am stuff is just a cheap and cheerful tactic to sweep under the carpet the fallout as opposed to dealing with the underlying issue of drunks getting served. 

Quite frankly I'm a little bit bored with opening the paper and seeing a corner shop or supermarket has been stung by the Council sending in an underage stooge to catch them out with a booze sale ~ this seems to be an easy, low risk, 9-5 friendly way of bumping up a few figures. There's a time and a place for that but it's got to balance out with the slightly more difficult job of some out of hours work on these boozers that are fuelling the fights that ensue at chucking out time. I don't believe it's really the job of the cops to do that either. Their time is fully occupied with rolling on the floor with the drunks and I don't think they've got oodles of time to hang around building up intelligence about how a venue is operating. The last Licensing Act shifted the responsibility to the Council anyway so I think they should pull their finger out a bit more.

I am likely to get my head shot off with many of you by what I am going to say. I am a member of the Regulatory committee who deals with licencing among other things, the restriction was asked for by the police, as a member of that committee I had the opportunity last year of going out with the police on a Friday/Saturday/Sunday in Hereford, other members went to Leominster, Ledbury, Bromyard and Ross, it was quite an eye opener where some people caused distruption and trouble being so drunk when they came out of clubs and pubs etc. We do not change the rules on a whim but with concrete evidence where people do not know when to stop drinking and all the problems they present, and yes before you say it, a few spoils it for the many, after witnessing the problems for myself I can understand why the police want every one off the streets and on their way home as quickly as possible.

So you took the trouble to go out with the cops Glenda and then ignore the evidence you saw? You identified the problem of people getting served way too much ale at the pubs/clubs and then plough on regardless with this 1.30 am food ban because the cops have asked for it. Haven't you got any independent thought to work out that it's the ale situation that needs sorting out and not the chip shops? If you saw people sliding out of a certain premises horizontal can I ask if these licensee's have been called in to explain themselves? I despair when people like you are sitting on the Committee that trots out the rules for shop opening times quite frankly.

I know why the cops want the streets cleared because they have to put a night shift on and make the late shift work a half night to overlap to pad out the numbers but I would suggest that's just tough. 

As regards to the sandwich shops staying open that's purely down to the way the current Licensing Act was written. It only controls the sale of hot food and not food which is at the ambient temperature or less. 

 4am - I just called them, so there must be special rules in place for bank holidays and New Year's eve, happy days!   Should be like that EVERY WEEKEND!

I think it's a general exemption under the Licensing Act for that date/event ~ so beyond the reach of The miserable Council.... 

How about adding The Palace Restaurant that was run by Denny on Commercial Road. Empty for years! Looks a total dump. There was some activity there a couple of years ago then nothing! 

Are the chip/kebab shops open past 1.30 AM tomorrow night? I need to know! 

I haven't driven around this roundabout since the lights were switched back on so cannot comment first hand but I have a question. Is the light phasing just set different to the old set of lights? Or is it the same? Or is it a new system on those lights? 

'The Wife' ... Very interesting language point raised by the Councillor ...  Do you remark 'The Wife is cooking tonight' ... or 'My Wife is cooking tonight' ... Or does he not like the word Wife? Or does he not like the two words together ? 

I know that previous grass issues are down to the previous contractor (Amey). I'm located up by Churchill Gardens at Aylestone and there was a marked drop off in services from about 4 years ago at that location. Before that there were not many issues that I would have moaned about but since then the leaves have not been collected in the Autumn ... Which has resulted in all the grass dying off under the trees at the top.

The area is not massive but they then decided it was a good idea to tackle little bits at a time. Cut round some trees and disappear. Then come back a week later and cut a bit more of the main areas ... etc ... 

It ended up with me ringing the Council saying the infrequent service was below standard as the grass was getting to ridiculous lengths and uncollected dog mess was getting hidden. One reply I got on the phone was that grass grows at different rates according to the weather and time of year and that had an impact on how often they visit. 

Here's a link to some pics on Foursquare that I've posted ... Ignore the dogs (mine) but look at the grass and make your own minds' up as to whether that was a decent level of service ... https://foursquare.com/v/churchill-gardens/4cb4585575ebb60c59a7e1ad/photos On one of the photos I reckon we could have done with a hay bailer to collect the grass after it dried as there was so much sileage dropped.

What you will still see though is that certain verges are manicured to perfection with grass collected by the machine. Like Victoria St. by West Street car park. But if it's out of sight at all it is subjected to the shambolic cut & drop technique.

With this new contract with Balfour why are we talking about cuts in grass cutting services so soon. Surely a deal was signed to provide a certain level of service over a certain length of time? 

Ironically Franklin House was used more as an unofficial public loo before the Council took it over ~ due to the recessed front doorway. That's if some hobo wasn't sleeping in it. When they shut up shop for the day now they roll down an opaque security shutter to block off the doorway (which obscures any signage on the door behind). Good idea as the waste in that doorway was horrendous before that happened. Rather like the West door of the Cathedral before they gated it off. A magnet for druggies, students and tramps.

My aluminium goes in the green recycle bin at home. If they can't recycle that then they are using the wrong systems. 

Last time I walked past Franklin House there was no Community Loo sign. That was a month ago. I have been left with the impression that it was trumpeted on the Council website as being in the scheme but in practice a walk by punter (maybe a tourist) wouldn't know. I don't go into town very often as it's turned into a dump but I am going in next tuesday for a haircut so I'll take another look and see if one's appeared ... ... 

Halo Leisure are starting to charge for parking at Hereford Leisure Centre tomorrow and are employing 'Corporate Services (Hereford) Limited' to do the enforcement. Here is a link to an experience of someone getting one of their tickets at KFC Hereford http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.consumeractiongroup.co.uk%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%3F340278-Civil-Penalty-Charge-Notice-at-KFC&h=2AQHer7ul They are 'approved' by the British Parking Association and so can access data from the DVLA I believe. But the website indicates they are not authorised for debt recovery. See link: http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Approved-Operators

The chip shops are being allowed to open until 0430 hrs into 01.01.13. I saw the one's in Commercial Road were advertising this when I was in town earlier today. I think it's a one off. I cant remember if this happened last New Years Eve.

Can't see anything happening until the Highways Agency have spent £0.3M re-jigging the roundabout next year... 'A49/A465 Belmont Road junction, Hereford (map ref. 43)

Reduce congestion by realigning the junction and adding signals to account for local traffic movements to and from the supermarket and the A465.

Supports the Edgar Street Grid regeneration scheme and the Rotherwise Enterprise Zone. Supports the creation of 7,575 jobs and 3,300 homes by 2020.

Cost £0.3m. Starts 2013. Ends 2013.

http://www.highways.gov.uk/news/press-releases/170m-road-boost-for-local-economies/

Whether they will sort out the St. Martins Street lights I don't know. ie when you get stranded in the Leisure Pool at May Fair time ...

Hereford People might be confused as to why the Jailhouse Nightclub can open until 3am on Thurs/Fri/Sat http://www.truffleherefordshire.co.uk/business-detail.php/75/the-jailhouse with it's recent 2 year history of drugs and alcohol related disorder (at and within it's premises) as detailed in a Police Press release on 02.10.12: http://www.westmercia.police.uk/news/news-articles/hereford-nightclub-faces-licensing-hearing.html when the hot food shops round the corner have to shut at 1.30am. I'm pretty sure any problems outside their premises that may have occurred would not have been down to their food vending but would be down to where the troublemakers had been drinking elsewhere earlier! Same point as I made earlier really but the drinks venues seem to be cut far more slack than the hot food places!

I don't agree with the curfew. But I can see why it's there as a cheap fix. I can, however, buy a kebab in other Cities at 3am and have done so! Which reinforces the argument that Hereford is not moving with the times.

Any hot food shop in Commercial Road wanting to stay open after 1.30 am will have the Crime Map waved in their direction. Followed by a refusal.

I've been in touch with the Council about the incompetence of Amey in cutting the grass at Churchill Gardens. Or rather not cutting it. Photo's on the link: https://foursquare.com/v/churchill-gardens/4cb4585575ebb60c59a7e1ad/photos

Their reply was that it was the fault of the grass for growing too quickly....

The 1.30 am cut off is set in stone by the Police and Council to clear the drunks off the street quicker. If the chip shops and kebab shops stayed open later then undoubtedly a few extra people would hang about longer munching on hot food and potentially they would cause problems in their drunken state. As we all know people munch on hot food all day and all evening outside chip shops with no issues. So the problem is alcohol related. I would argue that the food shops should stay open later for the benefit of the Majority and that disorder with the Minority is prevented by dealing properly with the Nightclubs who are quite happy to serve people booze way past the point where they should have been refused service. Stand outside Fusion nightclub (or whatever it is called), or Play, at kicking out time and you will see the state of the clients! Absolutely smashed! Instead of drifting into work on Monday morning to react to an email report of a chip shop closing 5 minutes late the Council should be round the boozers logging who is serving drunks and dealing accordingly. And if that means suspending a License then so be it. The Clubs will soon get the message. At the moment the only Licenses that get taken away seem to be the one's where the Council have done a daytime 'sting' on shops doing under age sales or ones selling contraband brought in from Europe. I think the Golden Fleece was shut down for a while over a nasty assault but it wasn't until someone was nearly killed that action was taken there. It had a long history of being a watering hole for the local drunks. Same as The Queens and the Bowlers. The bottom line is, at the moment, the Council is NOT doing enough and is cheaply trying to deal with the fallout of the problem as opposed to dealing with the problem itself.