George Armstrong
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Everything posted by George Armstrong
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You can't have it all ways, Bobby. This link began by highlighting the problem and you suggested they were migrants. The Police and their Partners are doing something about it (good) and none of them were migrants, as you asserted. I agree that the Streets were never lost, though. On that point, you are completely right. As a result of Operation Castlemain, do the posters on this topic think things are getting better or worse?
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Agreed, but Bilbo's right. This is about street-drinking rough sleepers, or at a push rough-sleeping street drinkers, and not about the poor Baptists who are trying to help these unfortunates. As an aside, I see that the bushes outside the Baptist Church have been cut back to give more natural surveillance to the area. Good idea.
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Roger, There's a couple of characters like that in the Parable of the Good Samaritan. They're not the Victim, the Innkeeper or the Samaritan, mind you. I think Stupid Frustration may have a point though - you know where all the problems are but none of the solutions, Mate.
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Dippy! This is what the Street Pastors do! Excellent people doing an excellent service. I'll get you an application form.
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Roger, You should've called your former colleagues - might have issued one with one of those dispersal notice thingies and got an ambulance to the other one. Hope he's alright...
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" There is often a disproportionate amount of attention directed to street drinking issues compared to other local alcohol related harm. This is largely due to the high visibility of street drinking and the influence of outspoken local resident groups and/or councillors.  Street drinking is a complex issue in which there are no ‘quick wins’ – effective responses are largely reported to be multi-pronged approaches that achieve the difficult balance between enforcement and support based interventions, however;  Street drinkers are often treatment resistant and largely not motivated to change street drinking habits, making support based intervention options limited.  Street drinkers have become increasingly homogenised into a wider more complex group of street populations including drug users, rough sleepers and beggars. " So, enforcement is not necessarily the single answer but rather one of a number of tactics to use in addressing this complex socio-economic health problem with a law & disorder dimension.
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"The broken windows theory is a criminological theory of the norm-setting and signalling effect of urban disorder and vandalism on additional crime and anti-social behavior. The theory states that maintaining and monitoring urban environments in a well-ordered condition may stop further vandalism and escalation into more serious crime." Just a thought...
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"The broken windows theory is a criminological theory of the norm-setting and signalling effect of urban disorder and vandalism on additional crime and anti-social behavior. The theory states that maintaining and monitoring urban environments in a well-ordered condition may stop further vandalism and escalation into more serious crime." Just a thought...
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I saw two policemen by the John Venn grave the other day, actually picking up the rubbish and cans left behind after the street drinkers moved on. Bit of the old 'Broken Window' idea, no doubt. Place certainly looked better after they went.
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Unless I'm missing something, have things started getting better recently? The large gatherings appear to be getting less, with a few hardcore (4 or 5) persisting on. Any clues as to where they've gone now?
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My understanding is that the Police, partner agencies and the Churches are now putting some concerted effort into addressing this problem. So far this year we've seen several deaths amongst the street-drinking population as publicised in the HT, so a radical rethink is perhaps required here. As a religious sort might put it, sustenance is a sticking plaster but salvation is the key. A greater outreach capacity is required to set those who want to be helped back on the road to recovery. That might take some 'tough love', but some might think that the current provision just ain't working that effectively.
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The groups of street drinkers outside the Baptist Church seem to have disappeared of late, coinciding with the removal of the benches...
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Roger, We used to treat people with respiratory problems with Craven A cigarettes and shoot people with a shell shock 100 years ago. We can change our minds - it's ok. What looks pretty silly is continuing with the same remedial action when the game has changed irrevocably - else we'd still be burning witches in Hereford #justsaying
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Sorry you think I was boasting, Paul. I was just trying to inform the debate with some facts. Incidentally, another interesting fact is that if you research the customer base of our night time economy you'll find that we're seeing a much wider geographical pull into our Clubs. Leominster obviously, since Euphoria closed, but Crickhowell, Brecon, Abergavenny etc. Play's a big draw 'beyond the City', as is Jailhouse for it's specialist music nights and Mamma Jamma's for the same reason - all good Clubs with a very different appeal to discerning customers. This is a great debate that has run and run, but I'm not sure of the premise that people don't go out in Hereford because the Chip Shop is closed at 3am, but go to Gloucester instead. Yes, it's an inconvenience if you want some hot food. So were the running battles in Commercial Road associated with hot food eateries at 3am. Maybe people miss them - there's not been one for years... In the meantime, The solution to this is for the pre-existing hot food eateries to apply for an extension of their hours. Their willingness to do so will depend upon their worries about a major national chain e.g. McDonalds doing likewise, and in doing so changing the late night food dynamics irrevocably forever. #justsaying
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For what it's worth, stupid frustration is absolutely right. Best ask the late night refreshment house proprietors themselves. Their major concern is that a large multinational food chain opens within the same time parameters as theirs, and they lose market-share and their current business models become unviable. That's why there have been a lack of legal challenges to the restrictions imposed to date. Lastly, a visit to crime mapper or comparable A & E stats for the Night Time Economy will show that Hereford has an enviably low crime rate for Disorder in a public place compared to statistically comparator conurbations. This has got a lot to do with HAND Pubwatch, it's own Alcohol Diversion Scheme, Street Pastors, and close supervision of Licensed Premises by the relevant authorities. This comparably low level of disorder is something this City can justly be proud of, some might say.
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My understanding is that the relevant authorities are 'open' to consider later opening hours for hot food providers within the City Centre, and new applications will be considered on a 'case by case' basis. Of course, such proprietors must be careful with what they wish for, because should a major national player be successful in such an application, that would change the shape of 'the market' forever.