Post Grenfell Tower.

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

And they never will.

 

 

 

 

 

Am I alone in getting monumentally p****d off by the effing naysayers on this site?

 

It is now being widely reported that tests show that two different grades of cladding panels were fitted at Grenfell, though only one type (more fire-resistant) was specified.

[ragwert]

Am I alone in getting monumentally p****d off by the effing naysayers on this site?

 

It is now being widely reported that tests show that two different grades of cladding panels were fitted at Grenfell, though only one type (more fire-resistant) was specified.

BOTH had EXACTLY the same fire rating.

I get pi**ed off when the regulations are there for everyone to see.

[Ubique]

AND IT FAILED - so somebody has messed up- yes ?

[ragwert]

AND IT FAILED - so somebody has messed up- yes ?

Considering this type of cladding has been used around the world with a few fires on tall buildings which led to

it being banned you have to think why the Government never took action over here.

 

Same type of cladding here (Polyethylene covered in aluminium) 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/dubai/12076792/Dubai-skyscraper-fire-new-years-eve-2015-live.html

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

Considering this type of cladding has been used around the world with a few fires on tall buildings which led to

it being banned you have to think why the Government never took action over here.

 

Same type of cladding here (Polyethylene covered in aluminium) 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/dubai/12076792/Dubai-skyscraper-fire-new-years-eve-2015-live.html

 

I think it was the late Dennis Healey who once opined: "When you're in a hole, stop digging."

 

I suggest Ragweed does the same, as I find his moronic 'contributions' (I'm flattering him) to this site boring beyond belief!

[ragwert]

I think it was the late Dennis Healey who once opined: "When you're in a hole, stop digging."

 

I suggest Ragweed does the same, as I find his moronic 'contributions' (I'm flattering him) to this site boring beyond belief!

Don't flatter yourself 

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

Black Tomb. The definitive images of the charred hulk of Grenfell Tower were nearly all taken with telephoto lenses from the elevated Westway, which carries the M40 west out of London. At street level, the picture is very different and, if anything, even grimmer. Grenfell appears at the end of streets and pedestrian passageways, or is seen framed by the brick facades of low-rise council housing blocks. Though now a securely sealed and guarded enclave, it haunts you. My purpose in visiting the scene of the tragedy was not to glimpse the dreadful tower, but to read the survivors' poignant posters, notices and messages.

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

The whole district is festooned with tributes: flowers, candles, toys and ribbons. They are fixed to every lampost, bollard, telephone box and bus stop. And 'MISSING' is the word which appears most frequently. Unlike the mountains of flowers which were placed outside Kensington Palace after the death of Princess Diana, these Grenfell messages are heart-felt and very touching. Their three principle locations are outside Notting Hill Methodist Church, the Wall of Hope in front of the Latymer Road Community Centre and the Wall of Truth beneath Westway. This unfriendly concrete canyon seems to be the focal point for outdoor protest meetings, radio and TV interviews and some of the strongest-worded declamations. Like the huge graffiti, in Rastafarian colours, reading: 'Convict RBK&C of Corporate Massacre'. The most moving was certainly: 'Say a prayer for all the NO NAMES' - a reference, I imagine, to the unknown number of visitors, friends, house guests and illegal tenants who perished, but will never be identified.

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

The Grenfell tragedy, according to the Met, is now the largest criminal investigation it has ever undertaken, outside of terrorist attacks. All power to its elbow.

 

But this must be cold comfort to the survivors and relatives of all those who lost their lives, when it is realised that the likelihood of charges of Corporate Manslaughter being brought against RBK&C - if successful - only carry fines and not custodial sentences.

 

We all know how cash-rich RBK&C is, with its obscene 'slush fund' of £275-million (compare that to HC's current  running debt of £125-million). A punitive fine wouldn't even dent its reserves. And heads would be unlikely to roll.

[Ubique]

Thank you GK Son for your three excellent posts relating to your visit to the area.

One can see it on TV but going to the scene would truly show a completely different picture , I would think that you came away quite sad , perhaps a little angry that because of complete disregard of Fire Regs this disaster occurred in the first place . It appears that Building Control Officers were signing this material off as acceptable . I am sure others can or have already explain this weakness .

[ragwert]

Thank you GK Son for your three excellent posts relating to your visit to the area.

One can see it on TV but going to the scene would truly show a completely different picture , I would think that you came away quite sad , perhaps a little angry that because of complete disregard of Fire Regs this disaster occurred in the first place . It appears that Building Control Officers were signing this material off as acceptable . I am sure others can or have already explain this weakness .

Fire regulations were not disregarded though were they.Nothing to do with building control officers signing off the cladding as it had

passed some very standard fire tests way back in 1998.The only Country that tested this type of cladding and came to the proper 

conclusion was Germany giving it a B1 classification...The same as wood.

Building regulations were and still are out of date and a complete overhaul and re testing of all materials used in construction

is needed.

 

[Ubique]

Thank you for that Ragwert , I knew that you had your finger on the pulse and correct me if needed.

 

Just wondering why it has been reported that the Metpol are considering Corperate Msnslaughter Charges against a Company if everything was legal and complied with the present ( but apparently outdated ) laws and Fire Regs ?

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

If the Met's announcement last week that it was considering bringing charges of corporate manslaughter was supposed to reassure Grenfell survivors, it seems to have had the opposite effect. For a start, the seven-year-old act carries no custodial sentences, only unlimited fines (the first company to be successfully prosecuted got hit with a fine of just £38,000!). So, sitting on capital reserves of £275-million is hardly likely to give RBK&C councillors or officers sleepless nights. Secondly,, it is now being suggested that if charges were to be brought by the CPS, former Appeal Judge Sir Martin Moore-Bick's Inquiry (whose narrow terms of reference have already been questioned) might have to be halted. The phrase 'being caught between a rock and a hard place' comes to mind.

[ragwert]

Thank you for that Ragwert , I knew that you had your finger on the pulse and correct me if needed.

 

Just wondering why it has been reported that the Metpol are considering Corperate Msnslaughter Charges against a Company if everything was legal and complied with the present ( but apparently outdated ) laws and Fire Regs ?

If you have a product that has be tested by Govt departments,given a British Standard number & also a class 0 fire rating which then fails

new fire standards,who do you blame?

On the other hand other Countries have also tested this type of cladding and come up with very different levels of fire resistance.France give it an absolute zero for being flamable and say it's non combustible,UK give it a 0 which means a very slow spread of flame something like 8 inches in 10 mins.

Germany's fire rating gives it the same rating as wood.

Blame lies with outdated regs.

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

If you have a product that has be tested by Govt departments,given a British Standard number & also a class 0 fire rating which then fails

new fire standards,who do you blame?

On the other hand other Countries have also tested this type of cladding and come up with very different levels of fire resistance.France give it an absolute zero for being flamable and say it's non combustible,UK give it a 0 which means a very slow spread of flame something like 8 inches in 10 mins.

Germany's fire rating gives it the same rating as wood.

Blame lies with outdated regs.

 

I find a useful tip is to always read through one's thoughts before posting them on The Voice. For typos, grammatical errors, punctuation and that sort of thing. Helps other folk to understand your 'stream-of-consciousness bile'. You should try it Ragwert.

[Colin James]

I find a useful tip is to always read through one's thoughts before posting them on The Voice. For typos, grammatical errors, punctuation and that sort of thing. Helps other folk to understand your 'stream-of-consciousness bile'. You should try it Ragwert.

 

Okay no need to be teacher, I find this quite patronising and I am sure ragwert does too. It is not difficult to work out what people are saying. 

[Ubique]

Okay no need to be teacher, I find this quite patronising and I am sure ragwert does too. It is not difficult to work out what people are saying.

 

And yet you allow post 66 , appears double standards again .

[ragwert]

And yet you allow post 66 , appears double standards again .

 

I never started this so what's your point Ubique?

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

As it's vaguely 'Grenfell related', put this of your Need to Read list:-

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/25/dispossession-social-housing-crisis-documentary-thatcher-legacy-right-to-buy

[Colin James]

And yet you allow post 66 , appears double standards again .

 

Again? 

 

To be honest I had not seen that but I have now removed the offending contribution.

[Ubique]

Colin , thank you .

 

Sadly in the recent past some of the comments on this site have been so similar and slid so low to some of the rubbish nonsense on the HT Comments.

We all enjoy a discussion and quite rightly do not always agree with some of the comment but it's the way we argue against other comments that count , plus of course the way it's managed.

[Colin James]

Colin , thank you .

 

Sadly in the recent past some of the comments on this site have been so similar and slid so low to some of the rubbish nonsense on the HT Comments.

We all enjoy a discussion and quite rightly do not always agree with some of the comment but it's the way we argue against other comments that count , plus of course the way it's managed.

 

Well unlike the HT I try to refrain from editing posts as much as possible. I work full time and I cannot monitor every single topic and post, I rely on members hitting the REPORT button that said, I have no problem with people having a disagreement and arguing to a degree but some comments do come across as more childish than anything. his has very little to do with the way we manage the site. You get this on all forums and social media, it is called 'Freedom Of Speech' we have rules/guidelines in place and most members over the past 10 years or more have been pretty good in my experience and I have very rarely had to remove a comment or hand out warnings, which in itself speaks volumes about Hereford Voice.

[Adrian Pitt]

Well unlike the HT I try to refrain from editing posts as much as possible. I work full time and I cannot monitor every single topic and post, I rely on members hitting the REPORT button that said, I have no problem with people having a disagreement and arguing to a degree but some comments do come across as more childish than anything. his has very little to do with the way we manage the site. You get this on all forums and social media, it is called 'Freedom Of Speech' we have rules/guidelines in place and most members over the past 10 years or more have been pretty good in my experience and I have very rarely had to remove a comment or hand out warnings, which in itself speaks volumes about Hereford Voice.

 

Colin, you run Hereford Voice very well especially considering how many topics and discussion are on here. It is very easy to sit behind keyboards and criticise. Well done keep up the good work and thank you for providing this platform for all us members to be able to contribute to the various and sometimes controversial debates. 

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

Wholeheartedly agree with Adrian Pitt's post. HV is head and shoulders above the badly-presented dross that masquerades as the once-mighty Hereford Times. But the carping naysayers here (no names, no pack drill) should try to lighten up and provide positive, well-constructed comment.