Colin James Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Well that's fair enough Colin maybe your getting old? but for me at the moment it's a no I'm just don't feel it's warranted at this moment in time…if we where getting them on a daily or weekly basis then I may change my opinion. I know a couple of Met Police officers and please believe me when I tell you that they have foiled at least 12-13 terror plots just in the last few weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the casual Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I cannot support you on this Colin. Arming the police is changing our way of life and, ultimately, allowing the terrorists to win. You say it's dangerous now but i think it was far worse in the 80s when the IRA were at their peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenda Powell Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 My brother used to be a police officer, and while working in London he had firearm training, but he did not think that every police officer should be armed. When I was a councillor I used to go to Parliament and the police were armed in side the gates before you went through the security twice before you entered the Houses of Parliament building. The latest news update is the police officer was not armed that died, 5 people including the terrorist has died and 40 people have been injured out of those 2 further police officers were injured and in a critical condition. I do not agree myself that all police officers should be armed, that said I am surprised that Hereford has not come under attack as it is always reported that Hereford is the home of the SAS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 I know a couple of Met Police officers and please believe me when I tell you that they have foiled at least 12-13 terror plots just in the last few weeks! I don't disbelieve you for a second when you say they have foiled 12-13 terror plots but it's also reassuring to know that our police force is doing its job & doing it well in preventing these plots from becoming a daily occurrence thankfully. I'm also under no illusions that they can prevent all of the plots from ever happening too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby47 Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 I don't believe that arming all our Officers would be a good thing for Britain.The moment you arm all Officers and even make it compulsory, you not only change the model of Policing in Britain from Policing With Consent to a more Authoritarian model, you completely change the recruitment process and alter the make up of all the ranks. Every single recruit would be required to have a Personality Psychometric Test to see whether or not they should carry a firearm, be able to shoot the pistol and deliver lethal deadly force. This would ultimately mean that the ranks would be swollen by those people who were able and capable of shooting someone but not necessarily be good and competent Officers. Huge numbers of good, kind and thoroughly capable recruits would be immediately excluded because of their inability to pass the PPT and this natural progression of recruitment, where being armed is the focus would inevitably be detrimental to the Service and change its very nature forever. What's more, I don't believe, based upon our model of Police Service you can expect all our Officers to wear these two hats. Dealing with an everyday piece of Police work that requires patience and diligence and then expecting them to suddenly change their core role and shoot someone dead is to much to ask. Also, it's all well and good training these officers, sending them up to the Rifle Range and getting them to hit the target is very different to being subjected to great stress, being unable to control your adrenalin and then flapping. The young lady Officer who stopped Lee Rigby's killer was around 18 feet away from the killer and in a three to four second burst fired off 8 rounds hitting the target once in the leg. Whilst highly trained, this young Officer was unable to hit the target beneath the neck and above the belly button simply because of stress and an inability to control her adrenalin. And it's got nothing to do with bravery! It's simply arming and equipping the right people who are capable of delivering deadly force and then being able to live with its consequences. I suggest that the only people qualified to carry out this role are our Armed Forces and a tiny number of well trained Police Officers who've been carefully selected to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin James Posted March 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 I don't believe that arming all our Officers would be a good thing for Britain.The moment you arm all Officers and even make it compulsory, you not only change the model of Policing in Britain from Policing With Consent to a more Authoritarian model, you completely change the recruitment process and alter the make up of all the ranks. Every single recruit would be required to have a Personality Psychometric Test to see whether or not they should carry a firearm, be able to shoot the pistol and deliver lethal deadly force. This would ultimately mean that the ranks would be swollen by those people who were able and capable of shooting someone but not necessarily be good and competent Officers. Huge numbers of good, kind and thoroughly capable recruits would be immediately excluded because of their inability to pass the PPT and this natural progression of recruitment, where being armed is the focus would inevitably be detrimental to the Service and change its very nature forever. What's more, I don't believe, based upon our model of Police Service you can expect all our Officers to wear these two hats. Dealing with an everyday piece of Police work that requires patience and diligence and then expecting them to suddenly change their core role and shoot someone dead is to much to ask. Also, it's all well and good training these officers, sending them up to the Rifle Range and getting them to hit the target is very different to being subjected to great stress, being unable to control your adrenalin and then flapping. The young lady Officer who stopped Lee Rigby's killer was around 18 feet away from the killer and in a three to four second burst fired off 8 rounds hitting the target once in the leg. Whilst highly trained, this young Officer was unable to hit the target beneath the neck and above the belly button simply because of stress and an inability to control her adrenalin. And it's got nothing to do with bravery! It's simply arming and equipping the right people who are capable of delivering deadly force and then being able to live with its consequences. I suggest that the only people qualified to carry out this role are our Armed Forces and a tiny number of well trained Police Officers who've been carefully selected to do this. I disagree, they seem to manage across the rest of Europe ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Smith Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 I am in favour of armed police, the world has changed for the worst and we need to be able to prevent life by being able to respond within seconds to any threat to the public. European police carry firearms so it is time for our police to be able to protect the public and themselves. I have signed the petition to at least allow a debate in parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Maybe a way of combating these home grown jihadist is to let those who want to go fight for the likes of Isis do so? Then those who wish to do so, because they have been that radicalised should have their citizenship revoke,all there finger prints,mugshot & DNA taken so as to make it extremely difficult for them to return to the UK? Secondly they may just get themselves killed in the process? Where homegrown terrorism is concerned, there's something to be said for letting British jihadis go to Syria - The Independent https://apple.news/ASlf8bE7_TICP2s8iJk60LA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragwert Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 I am in favour of armed police, the world has changed for the worst and we need to be able to prevent life by being able to respond within seconds to any threat to the public. European police carry firearms so it is time for our police to be able to protect the public and themselves. I have signed the petition to at least allow a debate in parliament. Maybe a way of combating these home grown jihadist is to let those who want to go fight for the likes of Isis do so? Then those who wish to do so, because they have been that radicalised should have their citizenship revoke,all there finger prints,mugshot & DNA taken so as to make it extremely difficult for them to return to the UK? Secondly they may just get themselves killed in the process? Where homegrown terrorism is concerned, there's something to be said for letting British jihadis go to Syria - The Independent https://apple.news/ASlf8bE7_TICP2s8iJk60LA Think you will find the ones that want to join ISIS have done so already (Around 1,500) Like the other terrorist attackers in the UK before this one he was born in the UK....A British Citizen,so where you going to deport them to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Think you will find the ones that want to join ISIS have done so already (Around 1,500) Like the other terrorist attackers in the UK before this one he was born in the UK....A British Citizen,so where you going to deport them to? I wasn't talking about deporting them I'm saying if they want to go join Isis let them then if they try to return here then refuse them entry that is if they have not been killed! According to the article not all have joined some have tried but failed in there quest to join isis & are now banged up in our prisons mixing with other jihadist getting more radicalised & given the state of our prison service that is not good. It also states that Germany is deporting those who are a threat back to there parents country of origin. Obviously there is not a issue with deportation if the attackers are dead like the murder yesterday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby47 Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 Well I'll be damned if I can bring myself to agree with our dear friend and fellow poster Frank Smith. Whilst I can accept I don't have a monopoly on good ideas and sound thoughts and my mind is often addled by ale, getting the Police tooled up to 'prevent life' is a step to far unless I'm considered out of step and very old fashioned. Given that the original sentiment was to prevent loss of life, and I've given my reasons why I disagree with Colin's proposition, Frank has taken the debate to a level that many like me may find uncomfortable. I can't see how directing the Police to shoot us all to prevent life is ever going to do us any good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Smith Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 Well I'll be damned if I can bring myself to agree with our dear friend and fellow poster Frank Smith. Whilst I can accept I don't have a monopoly on good ideas and sound thoughts and my mind is often addled by ale, getting the Police tooled up to 'prevent life' is a step to far unless I'm considered out of step and very old fashioned. Given that the original sentiment was to prevent loss of life, and I've given my reasons why I disagree with Colin's proposition, Frank has taken the debate to a level that many like me may find uncomfortable. I can't see how directing the Police to shoot us all to prevent life is ever going to do us any good at all. Shoot us all? WTH you on about Bobby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragwert Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 Well it turns out he was born Adrian Elms in Kent & he ain't a muslim,just a convert to Islam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragwert Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 Andrew Neils Pathetic poundland terrorist in an Estate car message. Never a truer word spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubique Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Something which must concern all Police Officers is the effectiveness of their alledged stabproof vests . Sadly ,according to his PM report read at the Inquest he was stabbed once - the attackers knife went through the stab vest and killed the Officer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin James Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Something which must concern all Police Officers is the effectiveness of their alledged stabproof vests . Sadly ,according to his PM report read at the Inquest he was stabbed once - the attackers knife went through the stab vest and killed the Officer. I wear a stab vest when I am working security and that would take some penetrating however, there are different qualities you will appreciate but I thought that the officer was stabbed in the neck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragwert Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 I wear a stab vest when I am working security and that would take some penetrating however, there are different qualities you will appreciate but I thought that the officer was stabbed in the neck? Yes he was...Several times.There are a few pictures Iv'e seen with someone suppressing his neck wounds while another person looks like he's trying to resuscitate him & other pics showing a police officer holding his legs up high to keep blood in his upper body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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