Ubique Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Posters , thank you for making this topic so very interesting . You all have very good knowledge / expertise on this subject . I am learning all the time . Thank you , and please let it continue . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 I agree Ubique, I think all prospective councillors should be reading this thread as its a major problem in Herefordshire. This is definitely a week area for me and I'm learning a lot from my from pal Dazza and from Chris Chappell as well, I would also like to say that since I was asked to consider becoming a councillor I've met some complete and utter idiot councillors who couldn't run a bath let alone anything else, trust me Dazza is very switched on and would make a superb councillor but also if not elected (if the locals are completely mad) he would be a excellent fountain of knowledge for any councillor from any party to get information on the NHS from. I do believe in speaking as you find and although I don't know them personally I would like to say best of luck to Glenda Powell and to Chris Chappell in the up coming election as I read their threads and find them to be balanced and honest, but most of all you can see like Dazza they have the best interests of their ward at heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza333 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Flamboyant, no problem. Why do you think the uptake of this service was so poor? Poor marketing strategy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza333 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Jimbo, bless ya buddy 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 So I've had a good day therefore I'm sitting down in my old chair in a devil may care mood but here goes my take on health and social care. Most people realise the importance of healthcare perhaps more so than mental health and social care which are the Cinderella services much of which is locally funded yet without doubt they should be all bundled together and dealt with locally but I don't think this will happen now and so why you may ask? After this election billions of pounds needs to be shaved off the deficit and none of the main parties have said how this will be achieved but we know. It's going to be said Cinderella organisations so it would be politically damaging to start shaving off millions within a combined health and social care scenario. No sir.. wanting to close maternity units emergency departments and surgical treatment centres are far more derisive than boarding up a few more nursing homes or closing down another child or mental healthcare unit. So it won't happen and although places like Manchester have embarked on such a scheme I can't see it happening here which is ironic as Hereford was talking about it years ago and why not the geographics/demographics ticked all the boxes. Trouble is we simply did not have the right people with the guts to make it happen...careers,personal gain or loss is far to important you see! So I'm banking on the next government offering the electorate choices,very difficult choices about where the cuts will come when reviewing health and social care, no courage just passing the buck straight back to you the voter. Just for the record I feel that huge sums of money have been wasted in the NHS over the last thirty five years. When I walked into my first paid role as an operating theatre orderly back in 1978 I had just 4 'O' levels in my back pocket. With on the job training I know ..let's call them apprenticeships I qualified as a Theatre Technician then went on to complete my State Registered Nurse training whilst participating in the Territorial Army finally landing up as a surgical scrub specialist before leaving in the early 90's working for medical companies whilst still keeping a voluntary hand on the medical kit . These days you have to have a degree to open a bloody door correctly and in health and social care the more letters after your name does not make you necessarily a better clinician in fact I have known many a doctor whose mind was a fountain of all knowledge yet simply could not ply his/her trade. Despite all the education,training,IT and infrastructure, hospitals could still perform better. Suites of Operating Theatres standing idle at weekends or empty outpatient clinics because it's half term and we've all gone off to the seaside.Now of course we are creating another beaurocratic monster going by the name of the Care Quality Commission where nursing staff are leaving their posts to join a group who then return to check up on those colleagues they left behind and pretty soon their numbers would have got so big that another organisation will be created to ensure that they too are up to scratch..absolute madness and of course these are all hangers on..not in your face frontline staff except of course for that odd shift on Agency perhaps Taurus Healthcare just to keep your registration number that allows you to continue to practice. I care very much about the NHS but I don't like where it's going and sadly some of the blame lies firmly in the lap of today's healthcare professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Flamboyant, no problem. Why do you think the uptake of this service was so poor? Poor marketing strategy? Apart from the fact Herefordshire Councils, Senior Managers were involved.. Dazza333, GreenKnight stated the following in his post. "Most people realise the importance of healthcare perhaps more so than mental health". The money spent on websites and marketing material wasn't telling people anything they didn't already know. The issue it skipped around was mental health and the advice given in the leaflet would in my opinion leave someone suffering from mental health even more despondent than when they started reading it. The service offered by Herefordshire Council was no more than a sign posting service to services that already existed had anyone had the inclination to look for them. The development of services focussed on specific groups of individuals or needs has created a plethora of complex pathways for individuals (particularly people with mental health issues) to navigate in order to access services. In addition, while creating a system to meet a set of particular needs, it fails to account for other existing and potential areas of need. This results in an inflexible and unresponsive system, with people in and outside the system confused by various access points and referral criteria. This can and does lead to patients being referred from service to service, something mental health patients are rarely able to cope with. Care pathways should be transparent to all stakeholders, with a clear point of access with flexibility to account for varying presentation. For example I couldn't get an appointment at my local surgery for a blood test and was instead sent to Taurus. The nurse advised me my results would be sent back to my doctors surgery within the following two days. Two days later my surgery informed me they didn't have the results and they would be returned to Taurus. Finally after three days and numerous phone calls my GP surgery had to ring the hospital for the results! The more links you have in a chain the weaker that chain becomes and the harder it is to establish the 'weakest link'! Anyone fancies taking a look at the marketing material aimed at adults - follow the link below http://www.nhs.uk/change4life/pages/nhs-supporters.aspx?filter=NHS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Apart from the fact Herefordshire Councils, Senior Managers were involved.. Dazza333, GreenKnight stated the following in his post. "Most people realise the importance of healthcare perhaps more so than mental health". The money spent on websites and marketing material wasn't telling people anything they didn't already know. The issue it skipped around was mental health and the advice given in the leaflet would in my opinion leave someone suffering from mental health even more despondent than when they started reading it. The service offered by Herefordshire Council was no more than a sign posting service to services that already existed had anyone had the inclination to look for them. The development of services focussed on specific groups of individuals or needs has created a plethora of complex pathways for individuals (particularly people with mental health issues) to navigate in order to access services. In addition, while creating a system to meet a set of particular needs, it fails to account for other existing and potential areas of need. This results in an inflexible and unresponsive system, with people in and outside the system confused by various access points and referral criteria. This can and does lead to patients being referred from service to service, something mental health patients are rarely able to cope with. Care pathways should be transparent to all stakeholders, with a clear point of access with flexibility to account for varying presentation. For example I couldn't get an appointment at my local surgery for a blood test and was instead sent to Taurus. The nurse advised me my results would be sent back to my doctors surgery within the following two days. Two days later my surgery informed me they didn't have the results and they would be returned to Taurus. Finally after three days and numerous phone calls my GP surgery had to ring the hospital for the results! The more links you have in a chain the weaker that chain becomes and the harder it is to establish the 'weakest link'! Anyone fancies taking a look at the marketing material aimed at adults - follow the link below http://www.nhs.uk/change4life/pages/nhs-supporters.aspx?filter=NHS So true Flam...on occasion when I have wondered into a hospital management office I have seen them ..those chosen words carefully formatted coded marketing strategic speak. Words that you mention, stakeholder, care pathways, referral mechanisms, signposting, moving forward and so on written on nobo boards by Project Managers, University Researchers, Consultants,Analysts and so on. The Romans had the right approach to building pathways all I would do is make sure the signs that give direction are in a language that we can all understand ..not just the marketeers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Greenknight, I thought long and hard about using the management speak. There was a time when I collected management speak, there have been some classics. A line taken from my CV reads.. "Marketing professional with experience of implementing integrated marketing communications to deliver a range of targeted campaigns." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza333 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 We do actually have a very complex strategic healthcare plan already ongoing within Herefordshire (believe it or not). https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/8345bdff-0075-4d63-9f45-a7755c0a3032 That url should be correct, however, this is my new I pad I'm playing with so apologies if it's not. I will also post the reference. It makes for very complicated reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Greenknight, I thought long and hard about using the management speak. There was a time when I collected management speak, there have been some classics. A line taken from my CV reads.. "Marketing professional with experience of implementing integrated marketing communications to deliver a range of targeted campaigns." Oh don't worry Flam if my CV was being pitched to a Sales & Marketing set up I would use a similar ' speak' but I learnt to adjust the CV to suit the audience to which it was directed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza333 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Comprehensive but who on earth can decipher it in its entirety and use it simply and effectively. How much did it cost to draw this plan up and where are the staff coming from to implement it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 We do actually have a very complex strategic healthcare plan already ongoing within Herefordshire (believe it or not). https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/8345bdff-0075-4d63-9f45-a7755c0a3032 That url should be correct, however, this is my new I pad I'm playing with so apologies if it's not. I will also post the reference. It makes for very complicated reading. There you go..cracking its all sorted I saw a very similar document four years ago and I see this one is a year old but things can't be going to plan after all a lots happened these last twelve months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 GreenKnight, you do know I was being facetious? Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza333 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Greenknight don't you think though that such an important, expensive and politically relevant document should at least have been mentioned by our prospective MPs when healthcare, the NHS etc is such a massively important agenda? I would have thought so but the truth is that I would suspect not one of them knows about it's existence, nor I also suspect to the citizens of Herefordshire. Furthermore I would suspect that is unusable due to financial constraints and a shortage of healthcare staff, as such I suspect an awful lot of our money and man hours was wasted with the production of this document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 There you go..cracking its all sorted I saw a very similar document four years ago and I see this one is a year old but things can't be going to plan after all a lots happened these last twelve months. The plan is stick to the PLAN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza333 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Reference as promised: Transforming Health and Care in Herefordshire, Herefordshire's CCG Five Year Strategic Plan for a High Quality, Sustainable, Integrated Health and Care System, June 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Greenknight don't you think though that such an important, expensive and politically relevant document should at least have been mentioned by our prospective MPs when healthcare, the NHS etc is such a massively important agenda? I would have thought so but the truth is that I would suspect not one of them knows about it's existence, nor I also suspect to the citizens of Herefordshire. Furthermore I would suspect that is unusable due to financial constraints and a shortage of healthcare staff, as such I suspect an awful lot of our money and man hours was wasted with the production of this document. Yep Dazza mate all correct...bloody maddening isn't it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 GreenKnight, you do know I was being facetious? Sorry! I did Flam I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza333 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Lol yes, maddening. That's exactly why I'm standing for council in the forthcoming election; to raise awareness where it counts, from the ground right up to the hairs in Richard Bekken's nostrils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Dazza, you're a straight talking guy. I like that. You also make a lot of sense, and have a clear grasp of what is happening, and crucially, what is needed. I truly hope you are successful. We need folk like you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Lol yes, maddening. That's exactly why I'm standing for council in the forthcoming election; to raise awareness where it counts, from the ground right up to the hairs in Richard Bekken's nostrils. I wish you the best of luck. When and if you get there and you're sat around a table with other Councillors, when you're presented with a load of bollocks written by Senior Managers and peddled as the next great innovation in saving money. You look very careful at that document before you vote it through because trust me all is not what it seems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza333 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Thank you dippyhippy, and what a great forum Hereford Voice is to discuss and debate these important points on and with people who challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Yes Flam, that should be an election promise made by all prospective candidates. Never, never take what's said at face value. Always, always question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Hereford Voice is a brilliant forum, and it's going from strength to strength. A few Councillors cottoned on very quickly to the power of communicating with folks this way. We don't always agree, but we certainly feel that we know these councillors, they are highly visible and easily accessible. I would hope that those of you who have recently signed up, will continue to engage this way, when you are elected. It's a very good "finger on the pulse" of Hereford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza333 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Flamboyant, it will be a tough challenge just to get past Bob Matthews, he's a proper old warhorse with much of the elderly vote in the Credenhill Ward, but one never knows 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Well I wish you well Dazza and should I ever find myself presented in ED during a Saturday night in a peripherally shut down situation I hope and only hope you don't decide to apply the EZio device because it would be then that I decide to blow my cover! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 By the way..do you still think we avoid healthcare...cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza333 Posted April 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 😉👠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Chappell Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Hi Dazza and Everyone. Dazza all I know is the regiment have to be 20 minuets away from base in case called in in emergency. I not sure about the rest.. To continue some of our chat about mental health care in Herefordshire. I have put it to GPs that there needs to be a more joined up service. It is ok to give anti depressants or what ever, but it is the cause of the mental illness that needs to be tackled. I have suggested, and it received fairly positive response, that when giving a prescription in the surgery for medication, an appointment is also made with CAB, Housing Association and Women's Aid. Giving a prescription for meds is fine, but if the root cause is at home or at work or elsewhere in the community, the problem is not going to be solved. Over the years I have been a councillor, I have seen women, in particular, wilt because of the domestic strain at home. Bullying partner, children out of control. Poor wages but long hours, a house that is too cramped for the whole family as children grow older but do not leave home because cannot afford anywhere to live. I have known families who twenty years ago were full of expectations but now are a shadow of themselves and it is usually mum who takes the fall. If GP makes the appointment with other agencies and voluntary organisations there is a chance that things could get better, the answer is not solely in the giving of medication. As a councillor, I am often called in too late to advise or to do much, but if the Ward councillor, who usually knows more than social workers or GPs etc about the people or the area, then a lot can be done to help families. A close working relationship with schools and CPSOs can often help but it all needs to be coordinated. Right that's me for now but interested to hear your views. , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 An interesting post, Chris. What is also lacking, is an availability of inpatient beds, particularly CAMHS. The closest is Birmingham, I have known children being sent to Kent. This is appalling, both for the child and their family. We had a concerted campaign to "cut the cancer misery miles", with a collective view taken from Worcester, Gloucester and Hereford. We perhaps need to think along these lines with an aim to improving mental health provision/resources locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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