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Cannot Purchase Hot Food In Hereford City After 1.30am

Council Complaint Herefordshire Council

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#61 Alex

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Posted 04 January 2014

I am likely to get my head shot off with many of you by what I am going to say. I am a member of the Regulatory committee who deals with licencing among other things, the restriction was asked for by the police, as a member of that committee I had the opportunity last year of going out with the police on a Friday/Saturday/Sunday in Hereford, other members went to Leominster, Ledbury, Bromyard and Ross, it was quite an eye opener where some people caused distruption and trouble being so drunk when they came out of clubs and pubs etc. We do not change the rules on a whim but with concrete evidence where people do not know when to stop drinking and all the problems they present, and yes before you say it, a few spoils it for the many, after witnessing the problems for myself I can understand why the police want every one off the streets and on their way home as quickly as possible.

 

So your not supporting getting this silly rule changed now then? What utter rubbish Cllr! You can still stop in at the Lunchbox, Tesco's or any number of garages on your way home, so what's the difference to being able to buy hot food from a take-away or even allowing deliveries to still continue? I feel really quite strong about this to be honest, so can you clarify where you are with this rule please Glenda Vaughan-Powell? Are you in favour of leaving it as it is or are you in support of relaxing this rule now that licensing laws are much more relaxed nowadays and the original problem of lots of people all conversing outside the local chipper have now long gone because people leave clubs and bars at various times throughout the night?


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#62 Rebecca Morrison

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Posted 04 January 2014

I am not surprised to hear people complaining about not being able to enjoy their weekends by having a laugh and grabbing a take away on the way home, what's wrong with that for God's sake. One of the reasons I choose to go elsewhere most weekends Hereford is like a bloody village at times!


Edited by Rebecca Morrison, 04 January 2014 .

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#63 Glenda Vaughan-Powell

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Posted 04 January 2014

Hinton Hitman, I totally agree with your first sentence about ensuring the law is applied in every licenced premises and the licencee is responsible for what goes on in their clubs and pubs. In regard to McDonalds clearing up outside their premises they volunteered to do that.
In regard to your coments about myself:-
1. I do not eat curry because I am alergic to spices.
2. I do drink alcohol.
3. I do attend meetings in pubs.
If you knew me which you obviously do not.
1. I am not small minded.
2. I do not have an over inflated opinion of myself.

I would take more notice of what you say if you were courageous enough to come on here under your own name, instead of hiding behind an avatar!

Alex, the rules of the regulatory committee is changing in regard to licencing, and for the record I was one of the councillors who allowed the public house in Eign road to re-open after the stabbing!
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#64 Alex

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Posted 04 January 2014

Hinton Hitman, I totally agree with your first sentence about ensuring the law is applied in every licenced premises and the licencee is responsible for what goes on in their clubs and pubs. In regard to McDonalds clearing up outside their premises they volunteered to do that.
In regard to your coments about myself:-
1. I do not eat curry because I am alergic to spices.
2. I do drink alcohol.
3. I do attend meetings in pubs.
If you knew me which you obviously do not.
1. I am not small minded.
2. I do not have an over inflated opinion of myself.

I would take more notice of what you say if you were courageous enough to come on here under your own name, instead of hiding behind an avatar!

Alex, the rules of the regulatory committee is changing in regard to licencing, and for the record I was one of the councillors who allowed the public house in Eign road to re-open after the stabbing!

 

With respect Glenda Vaughan-Powell we are not talking about re opening the pub after the stabbing?? We are talking about being able to purchase hot food after 1.30am. I would like to know where you stand on this as per my previous questions:

 

So your not supporting getting this silly rule changed now then? What utter rubbish Cllr! You can still stop in at the Lunchbox, Tesco's or any number of garages on your way home, so what's the difference to being able to buy hot food from a take-away or even allowing deliveries to still continue? I feel really quite strong about this to be honest, so can you clarify where you are with this rule please Councillor Vaughan-Powell? Are you in favour of leaving it as it is or are you in support of relaxing this rule now that licensing laws are much more relaxed nowadays and the original problem of lots of people all conversing outside the local chipper have now long gone because people leave clubs and bars at various times throughout the night?

 


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#65 philbates

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Posted 04 January 2014

I would like to agree with the comments made supporting late night eating and its relationship with alcohol consumption,

it is up to the Police, Council and Licensees to all play their part and to ensure our Freedom to move around this city and to eat when it suits us and not when the petty minded jumped up officials say we can, remember freedom?

Another point to remember is that the Police, council and licensees all draw their money from the public's pockets so should all be serving the greater public and not allowing the few to spoil it for the rest, something they tend to forget.

Within reason the only restriction on when and where food, hot or cold should be served should be made on a commercial basis, therefore hopefully providing urgently needed jobs for the young people of our city who really do need the support in every measure from the various councillors and council employees.

I'm so glad that Councillor Vaughan Powell was a member of the committee that allowed the Public House in Eign Road to re open we must all bow down before her and the others for such mercies.

I notice that the councillor ignored the hinton hitmans request to see the results of the enquiries she made with her electorate to support the no food after 1:30am rule so may be he has a point or two to be made.

I totally agree with him that John Newman was a fantastic councillor who worked hard for his residents and indeed the city and when approached by myself as the Local Beat Bobby asking for his assistance for members of the public, he never failed.

Yes the pubs clubs and restaurants and eating places have an extremely important part to play in this city and its future, I believe it was the current Prime Minister who said it would be the small businesses who would drag this country out of recession, so lets give them a chance in Hereford.


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#66 philbates

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Posted 04 January 2014

Something I forgot to mention,

if the crime map is produced as evidence it is always worth pointing out that the locations of crimes given are not exact, they are approximate locations and in some cases the reported scene may have been misrepresented on the map by the Police to ensure protection to a victim, and I must say that I fully support the misrepresentation for this reason, so if you're up before the beak or the council, demand proof that the crimes actually were close to your premises, and that the crimes reported are relevant to your particular case, the map is being presented as evidence in a Criminal Case the standard of proof is much higher than a Civil Case but never the less it is evidence and it must be credible.


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#67 Hinton Hitman

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Posted 04 January 2014

Councillor Vaughan-Powell, regarding point No2 to above On 11 December 2013 at 10:59 PM you posted on the Bloggers Bash, My allergies come from being diabetic and from various physical conditions ( you have my sympathies)

Just to let you know biomech I do not drink intoxication lichor.

 

I have written it as you wrote it, were you tired, taking the mick or was your spelling off that day?

or were you being a politician?


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#68 Bill Thomas

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Posted 06 January 2014

Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:59 PM

My allergies come from being diabetic and from medication for various physical conditions.Just to let you know biomech I do not drink intoxication lichor 
 
Hmm, well spotted Hitman, so will you have a drink or not Glenda Vaughan-Powell as you have confused us now :Winky:  

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#69 Glenda Vaughan-Powell

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Posted 06 January 2014

I regret ever answering this subject simply because it is my personal life. You have been told of my alergies to food and medication due to physical conditions I suffer from, I drink very moderately for medicinal purposes. These questions was started on the post bloggers bash I have no intentions of answering anymore questions on this subject!!!


Edited by Glenda Vaughan-Powell, 06 January 2014 .

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#70 Hinton Hitman

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Posted 06 January 2014

:Cha ching: typical politician, when things get a little uncomfortable they reuse to answer any more questions :Surprised_32:,  or refuse to discuss it again. (I'm sure I've read that on this site somewhere, now I wonder who said it? :Winky:)

Drinking for medicinal purposes,can you get alcohol; on prescription? I'd love to know, can Jim at the Victory dispense it over the bar? or do I have to go to Boots to collect it? If I can persuade my doctor to come up with the goods I might come out for drink. :Grin:


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#71 Biomech

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Posted 07 January 2014

So let me get this straight;

The council limits and restricts when we can eat
The council limits and restricts when we can go to the toilet

....interesting.

So when does the blanket curfew start? Making it an offence for us to leave the house after certain hours?
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#72 Hinton Hitman

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Posted 07 January 2014

Like the guy said, remember Freedom?


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#73 Biomech

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Posted 07 January 2014

The restriction on hot food does absolutely nothing to reduce clusters of people standing in the street when you allow cold food shops to stay open. Food is food. Hence the hordes that are always outside The Lunchbox.

 

So when is someone at the council going to admit what the real reason is? You have to be blind, ignorant or have an alternative agenda to fail to see that the crowds still flock to the streets.

 

It's akin to banning magazine fed handguns in america but allowing them to carry revolvers instead.


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#74 Hinton Hitman

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Posted 09 January 2014

On a serious note, we can all blog on the site as much as we like but we need action, would not a petition be an idea? I seem to remember reading somewhere that if you get a certain number of signatures the Council have to reply, the number 800 is in the back of my mind but I have no idea why, some one out there will have the answer, I would have thought we could raise more than 1000 between us.I would be willing to collect signatures if other bloggers think that we could achieve something, of course I would have to come as someone else. I suspect that our councillor members might get into a spot of bother with the Brockington Mafia if they took part but I'm sure one or two of them could advise. 

 

 

PS I see that Glenda Vaughan-Powell has minus 8 points on one of her posts, wish my street cred was that good.,


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#75 Biomech

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Posted 10 January 2014

 but we need action

 

 

Action complete. Between the wankers, the extortionate taxi prices and the lack of a burger. I - like so many others (once packed clubs are now dead inside) - don't bother going out in Hereford anymore.


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#76 Colin James

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Posted 10 January 2014

On a serious note, we can all blog on the site as much as we like but we need action, would not a petition be an idea? 

 

I already tried a petition idea and it was refused HERE but I want to do something so I think enough time has passed with no help from any of our Councillors on this debate, so I think it is time step it up a bit.


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#77 Colin James

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Posted 10 January 2014

The restriction on hot food does absolutely nothing to reduce clusters of people standing in the street when you allow cold food shops to stay open. Food is food. Hence the hordes that are always outside The Lunchbox.

 

So when is someone at the council going to admit what the real reason is? You have to be blind, ignorant or have an alternative agenda to fail to see that the crowds still flock to the streets.

 

It's akin to banning magazine fed handguns in america but allowing them to carry revolvers instead.

 

I am not sure that there are clusters or huge amounts of people standing in the street, well it is certainly nothing like it used to be before the licensing laws were relaxed that's for sure. But as you say food is food! Whether it is hot or cold is irrelevant!!

 

Can a Councillor please comment on this?? I know that Councillor Jim Kenyon is is favour of getting rid of this stupid curfew but I would just like to see what the other Councillors on here think or suggest what we need to do to get this changed?

 

You will see that I wrote to the Hereford Times about this a while back and my letter was 'featured' so I really believe we need to make more noise now. 


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#78 Biomech

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Posted 11 January 2014

It seems just as crowded to me around the Lunchbox and there are often people running in front of traffic to the BP.

 

Of course, in the past I was out and "in" the crowds around the chip shops, now I just drive past and see it from a different POV. But there are certainly a lot of people around Franklin House corner from 2-3am and, in my personal experience, there are just as many, if not more, fights. One actually spread across the road from Subway to Franklin house, must have been 15-20 people involved, on the road on the floor, causing traffic to brake sharply and swerve.


Edited by Biomech, 11 January 2014 .

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#79 Aylestone Voice

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Posted 12 January 2014

https://www.hereford...ails/?id=133456
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#80 Roger

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Posted 02 February 2014

I am likely to get my head shot off with many of you by what I am going to say. I am a member of the Regulatory committee who deals with licencing among other things, the restriction was asked for by the police, as a member of that committee I had the opportunity last year of going out with the police on a Friday/Saturday/Sunday in Hereford, other members went to Leominster, Ledbury, Bromyard and Ross, it was quite an eye opener where some people caused distruption and trouble being so drunk when they came out of clubs and pubs etc. We do not change the rules on a whim but with concrete evidence where people do not know when to stop drinking and all the problems they present, and yes before you say it, a few spoils it for the many, after witnessing the problems for myself I can understand why the police want every one off the streets and on their way home as quickly as possible.

So you took the trouble to go out with the cops Glenda and then ignore the evidence you saw? You identified the problem of people getting served way too much ale at the pubs/clubs and then plough on regardless with this 1.30 am food ban because the cops have asked for it. Haven't you got any independent thought to work out that it's the ale situation that needs sorting out and not the chip shops? If you saw people sliding out of a certain premises horizontal can I ask if these licensee's have been called in to explain themselves? I despair when people like you are sitting on the Committee that trots out the rules for shop opening times quite frankly.

 

I know why the cops want the streets cleared because they have to put a night shift on and make the late shift work a half night to overlap to pad out the numbers but I would suggest that's just tough. 

 

As regards to the sandwich shops staying open that's purely down to the way the current Licensing Act was written. It only controls the sale of hot food and not food which is at the ambient temperature or less. 


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#81 Glenda Vaughan-Powell

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Posted 02 February 2014

Yes I did go out as every councillor did on Regulatory Committee last year in their own area, leominster ,Ledbury, Bromyard , Ross including Hereford city. and yes I had my own independent views on the matter which I have stated not here but where it mattered at the committee, but I also commented on the night the problem is with the pubs and nightclubs serving people who has either come into the establishment already half way intoxicated or gets to the position of causing fights etc , but in my own opinion that is down to the manager of these establishments serving drinks when they shouln't, but the people themselves are also responsible how much they drink and their behaviour. I witnessed fights, walking out into the road nearly causing accidents and in between all this taxis parked everywhere causing a problem as well. These are the same people who go into hot food outlets and cause trouble, as well as urinating in the street being sick etc. Unfortunately as always the case a few spoil it for everyone else. Thats said, I can understand why the police want the streets cleared asap.They took their life in their hands on many occasions during the weekend I went out with them!!!

Edited by Glenda Vaughan-Powell, 02 February 2014 .

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#82 Roger

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Posted 02 February 2014

I know the situation around here won't change anytime soon as this 1.30 am cut off has been in place for years. But to me there seems to be some sort of tacit acceptance by the Council that people will go to these late watering holes and get smashed regardless and so they've just given in. All it takes is for a couple of Committee members to stand outside (insert your own venue name here) at closing time and if it's quite obvious that an unacceptable number of patrons are leaving three sheets to the wind then the Licensee should be called in to explain him or herself. And they can leave with a piece of paper saying they've got to close at 11pm for a month if needs be. This 1.30 am stuff is just a cheap and cheerful tactic to sweep under the carpet the fallout as opposed to dealing with the underlying issue of drunks getting served. 

 

Quite frankly I'm a little bit bored with opening the paper and seeing a corner shop or supermarket has been stung by the Council sending in an underage stooge to catch them out with a booze sale ~ this seems to be an easy, low risk, 9-5 friendly way of bumping up a few figures. There's a time and a place for that but it's got to balance out with the slightly more difficult job of some out of hours work on these boozers that are fuelling the fights that ensue at chucking out time. I don't believe it's really the job of the cops to do that either. Their time is fully occupied with rolling on the floor with the drunks and I don't think they've got oodles of time to hang around building up intelligence about how a venue is operating. The last Licensing Act shifted the responsibility to the Council anyway so I think they should pull their finger out a bit more.


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#83 Frank Smith

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Posted 02 February 2014

Yes I did go out as every councillor did on Regulatory Committee last year in their own area, leominster ,Ledbury, Bromyard , Ross including Hereford city. and yes I had my own independent views on the matter which I have stated not here but where it mattered at the committee, but I also commented on the night the problem is with the pubs and nightclubs serving people who has either come into the establishment already half way intoxicated or gets to the position of causing fights etc , but in my own opinion that is down to the manager of these establishments serving drinks when they shouln't, but the people themselves are also responsible how much they drink and their behaviour. I witnessed fights, walking out into the road nearly causing accidents and in between all this taxis parked everywhere causing a problem as well. These are the same people who go into hot food outlets and cause trouble, as well as urinating in the street being sick etc. Unfortunately as always the case a few spoil it for everyone else. Thats said, I can understand why the police want the streets cleared asap.They took their life in their hands on many occasions during the weekend I went out with them!!!

 

I have kept out of this debate but I have to say something. What a load of codswallop! But it's okay for Tesco to stay open though and garages and the food establishments who sell cold food??

 

Utter utter rubbish, I have to agree with Roger, you are penalising SELECT innocent business's because of another individuals behaviour? So based on that then why are the other business be forced to close too? And what has the food temperature got to do with it? Surely if your hungry your hungry... This large masses that used to gather in commercial road in particular at 1am and 2am changed when the licensing laws became more relaxed so this needs changing now to allow hot food establishments to close when they see fit and NOT because it's suits the local police.


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#84 Colin James

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Posted 02 February 2014

I have kept out of this debate but I have to say something. What a load of codswallop! But it's okay for Tesco to stay open though and garages and the food establishments who sell cold food??
 
Utter utter rubbish, I have to agree with Roger, you are penalising SELECT innocent business's because of another individuals behaviour? So based on that then why are the other business be forced to close too? And what has the food temperature got to do with it? Surely if your hungry your hungry... This large masses that used to gather in commercial road in particular at 1am and 2am changed when the licensing laws became more relaxed so this needs changing now to allow hot food establishments to close when they see fit and NOT because it's suits the local police.

 
I agree entirely and I am not alone

 

It must be so frustrating for hot food outlets in Hereford to close at 1.30am. Losing huge amounts of income due to Herefordshire Council.


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#85 Glenda Vaughan-Powell

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Posted 02 February 2014

Well I expected that reaction from what I have said, so you didn't disappoint me! I am not penalising anyone or any fast food outlet, it is not MY SINGLE decision. Read my post again I have said the minority spoils it for the rest, that said, the responsibility lies with the person and his/her behaviour, and how do you think the police find out about trouble in the food outlets its because most of the time the police are called by the propriator. So don't shoot the messanger (ME) because you don't like what I have said!!!


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#86 Denise Lloyd

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Posted 02 February 2014

Glenda VP gets repeatedly shot down for her views but at least she is one of the few Councillors who dares to put her head above the parapet.  I do not know for sure which party she represents I am not that interested.  What does interest me is the state of Hereford City and Hereford County.  This lady works damned hard for the good of her area and she does not class her work as a Monday to Friday 9 to 5 job.  This sniping at her every time she makes a comment that perhaps you guys don't agree with is disgraceful behaviour.  


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#87 Roger

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Posted 02 February 2014

Well I expected that reaction from what I have said, so you didn't disappoint me! I am not penalising anyone or any fast food outlet, it is not MY SINGLE decision. Read my post again I have said the minority spoils it for the rest, that said, the responsibility lies with the person and his/her behaviour, and how do you think the police find out about trouble in the food outlets its because most of the time the police are called by the propriator. So don't shoot the messanger (ME) because you don't like what I have said!!!

I agree that you and I and everyone else are answerable for our own behaviour but we are on about how the late night economy works here and that, to a large degree, is affected by National rules that you seem to conveniently ignore Glenda. In a Utopian World everyone would go out and have a couple of shandies and go home for a Horlicks but that doesn't happen. So we have the 2003 Licensing Act which has Section 141 which prohibits drunks getting served and 142 which stops you and me buying a drink for a drunk. All of which is being addressed by shutting down all chip shops at 1.30 am. And the penny doesn't seem to have dropped that these food outlets are probably having to call the cops for customers because of the illegal activities of the establishment they just left. It's not too dissimilar to blaming a domestic abuse victim for getting hit. It's not something they caused but blame them anyway.

 

And Denise ~ I'm not having a go at Councillor VP in order to cause trouble, or just to pick an argument for the sake of it. I think her entrenched views about 'it's the drinkers' fault' so we got to shut the chip shops is flawed and wrong. Plus shifting the decision onto the whole Committee and therefore diluting the blame is laughable.   


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#88 Glenda Vaughan-Powell

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Posted 02 February 2014

Roger, I have not shifted as you say the blame to the whole committee, it is solely not my decision, it is  the whole committee decision having listened to the officers who give us advice on the legal situation and the police, the whole committee gives their own opinion based on information in front of us, the chairman has the casting vote. No councillors are popular on that committee  with the general public because sometimes they do not like our decisions, but we are guided by our legal advisor, so it is a joint decision on the evidence that is before us. The committee responsibility is vast  it is not just with licensing.

 

Denise, thank you for your support it is appreciated, I have a reputation of speaking the truth some people do not like that, but at least you know where you stand with me, please or offend it is not personal. for clarification although you said it doesn't matter to you I am an Independent councillor and have been for nearly 11 years. Being a councillor is not a 9-5 job I make myself available 12 hours a day because I am on public record as saying if my constituents can get up off the A... to vote for me every 4 years then I give them 100% of my time, unfortunately not all councillors do that! and I can assure you my constituents keep me on my toes, but they appreciate the time I give them.


Edited by Glenda Vaughan-Powell, 02 February 2014 .

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#89 Frank Smith

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Posted 02 February 2014

I agree that you and I and everyone else are answerable for our own behaviour but we are on about how the late night economy works here and that, to a large degree, is affected by National rules that you seem to conveniently ignore Glenda. In a Utopian World everyone would go out and have a couple of shandies and go home for a Horlicks but that doesn't happen. So we have the 2003 Licensing Act which has Section 141 which prohibits drunks getting served and 142 which stops you and me buying a drink for a drunk. All of which is being addressed by shutting down all chip shops at 1.30 am. And the penny doesn't seem to have dropped that these food outlets are probably having to call the cops for customers because of the illegal activities of the establishment they just left. It's not too dissimilar to blaming a domestic abuse victim for getting hit. It's not something they caused but blame them anyway.

 

And Denise ~ I'm not having a go at Councillor VP in order to cause trouble, or just to pick an argument for the sake of it. I think her entrenched views about 'it's the drinkers' fault' so we got to shut the chip shops is flawed and wrong. Plus shifting the decision onto the whole Committee and therefore diluting the blame is laughable.   

I am not having a go at Glenda Vaughan-Powell either,  merely the decisions made on evidence seen apparently.. I think she does a grand job in general but I am with Roger again on this, so we should all be on a curfew then and nobody allowed on the streets after 7pm because a few people have murdered. So how come you can still buy food in Tesco, Garages and the Lunch Box then? And what has temperature got to do with it? Anyone going to answer this please?


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#90 Glenda Vaughan-Powell

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Posted 02 February 2014

Frank, slightly out of context here, no one mention murder or the fact you should not be out after 7pm, that will include me then because my city council meetings are all at night. Going back to the post in hand. I do not agree with the fact that some outlets are allowed to stay open because they are serving cold food, all food outlets should close at the same time in my opinion, but quite lately it is apparent on here my opinion does't count only everyone elses, but we are all entitled to our opinions are we not!


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