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Less disabled people in Poland compared to the UK?


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#1 Colin James

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Posted 17 July 2017

We have just returned from yet another wonderful week in Poland. As in this topic here are we to believe that here are less disabled people in Poland compared to the UK? Or is it that we just have more scammers making a mockery of our benefits system...I took photographs virtually overtime we passed a car park and as you will see, there are only one or two disabled designated bays and guess what, each time they were empty! 

 

CP8.jpg


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#2 Colin James

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Posted 17 July 2017

CP1.jpg

 

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This car park didn't have any designated disabled bays.

 

Tesco CP.jpg

Both bays outside Tesco's empty...

 

CP9.jpg

 

CP10.jpg


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#3 Frank Smith

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Posted 17 July 2017

Just goes to show, when no or fewer benefits are paid out strangely enough there happens to be less disabled people about. I bet you didn't see hardly anyone on a mobility scooter either Colin? 


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#4 Colin James

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Posted 17 July 2017

Just goes to show, when no or fewer benefits are paid out strangely enough there happens to be less disabled people about. I bet you didn't see hardly anyone on a mobility scooter either Colin? 

 

Funny you should mention that Frank, I was actually going to say just that in my original post and yes you are absolutely 100% on the money, we didn't see one single person on a mobility scooter. I saw one chap on crutches coming out of a shop on one of the days and that was it.


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#5 Dave99

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Posted 17 July 2017

Which city in Poland is this Colin?


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#6 Colin James

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Posted 18 July 2017

Which city in Poland is this Colin?

 

This is Bielsko-Biała, which is a big city and has a population of 174,000


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#7 Alex

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Posted 18 July 2017

I have read both topics and have to agree, less or no benefits and you appear to have less disabled people, strange that.  


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#8 moretvicar

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Posted 18 July 2017

Nice holiday snaps - nothing much of interest to take pictures of then?


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#9 ragwert

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Posted 18 July 2017

7.1 % are disabled in Poland.Population 37 million
10.3 % disabled in UK Population 65.2 million.
When it come to working age people Poland has the highest level in Europe

 

The disabled people in poland
  1. 1. *Inactivity rates of Polish workers with disabilities tend to be much higher than in other countries. , the country has the highest level of disability in Europe, with some 2.38 million people with disabilities in working age

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#10 Colin James

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Posted 19 July 2017

Nice holiday snaps - nothing much of interest to take pictures of then?

 

Who said I was on holiday? But yes, I took about 300 fantastic photographs, these were just a few I took for the forum.


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#11 Colin James

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Posted 19 July 2017

 

7.1 % are disabled in Poland.Population 37 million
10.3 % disabled in UK Population 65.2 million.
When it come to working age people Poland has the highest level in Europe

 

The disabled people in poland
  1. 1. *Inactivity rates of Polish workers with disabilities tend to be much higher than in other countries. , the country has the highest level of disability in Europe, with some 2.38 million people with disabilities in working age

 

 

 

I think your missing the point here, the word we are looking for is scammers! 


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#12 moretvicar

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Posted 19 July 2017

No -  his point appears quite clear.

If the statistics quoted are accurate then that destroys your "theory".

 

On the other hand your point, everything you have posted   seems to be attempting to make the point that there is a correlation between blue badges and scammers.

I can only surmise that you have no experience of the blue badge application process (I have) - if you did you would be aware of how difficult is is to obtain one.

 

But I am expecting that facts and experience will do little to change your mind .......


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#13 Paul Jones

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Posted 19 July 2017

No -  his point appears quite clear.

If the statistics quoted are accurate then that destroys your "theory".

 

On the other hand your point, everything you have posted   seems to be attempting to make the point that there is a correlation between blue badges and scammers.

I can only surmise that you have no experience of the blue badge application process (I have) - if you did you would be aware of how difficult is is to obtain one.

 

But I am expecting that facts and experience will do little to change your mind .......

 

My overweight friend had no problem applying, I know because I helped him complete it, which puts your comments out the door. He also lets his family use it when they go to town, takes the Micky! 

 

I can see where Colin is coming from here, no benefits or easy hand outs in Poland, hence less scammers claiming, hence the empty bays. Have you seen how many spaces they have designated in Broad St? It is a joke it really is. 

 

It is the same in the Spain topic, it is no wonder the gov have no money when this sort if thing is happening.


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#14 Irena Sulecka

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Posted 19 July 2017

I have read both topics and have to agree, less or no benefits and you appear to have less disabled people, strange that.  

 

Well certainly a lot less dodgy claimants. It is the same as unemployed people, in Poland you have to have worked the previous 12 months before any claim and then the maximum time period for claiming is 6 months after which time you will be offered 1 of 3 jobs if you refuse 3 then your money stops.


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#15 ragwert

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Posted 19 July 2017

I think your missing the point here, the word we are looking for is scammers! 

Who are the scammers? UK claimants or Polish.
I'd have a pretty good guess there would be 'scammers' in both Countries.
 


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#16 Bill Thomas

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Posted 19 July 2017

Who are the scammers? UK claimants or Polish.
I'd have a pretty good guess there would be 'scammers' in both Countries.
 

 

UK I suspect because in Poland there are no free hands out like here, that is why you are seeing unused disabled bays perhaps.


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#17 Rebecca Morrison

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Posted 20 July 2017

Well certainly a lot less dodgy claimants. It is the same as unemployed people, in Poland you have to have worked the previous 12 months before any claim and then the maximum time period for claiming is 6 months after which time you will be offered 1 of 3 jobs if you refuse 3 then your money stops.

 

People in the UK just take the mick, we must have the most disabled bays and mobility scooter sales compared to any European country. I don't think anyone has issues with genuine claimants and parking bays but I have to agree, there is a huge amount of so called disabled people in the UK. 


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#18 Rebecca Morrison

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Posted 20 July 2017

 

7.1 % are disabled in Poland.Population 37 million
10.3 % disabled in UK Population 65.2 million.
When it come to working age people Poland has the highest level in Europe

 

The disabled people in poland
  1. 1. *Inactivity rates of Polish workers with disabilities tend to be much higher than in other countries. , the country has the highest level of disability in Europe, with some 2.38 million people with disabilities in working age

 

 

Where are you getting these figures, because this does not add up at all.

 

How can Poland with a population less than half of that of the UK (37 million) have the highest level of disability in Europe? 

 

Germany has a population of over 80 million, Italy has a population of over 60 million, France has over 66 million, Ukraine has over 40 million and Spain has a population of over 45 million.

 

 

Disability in Europe
  • The total number of the population with a long-standing health problem or a disability (LSHPD) in 25 European countries is estimated to account for more than 45 million citizens. [ii]
  • These European Union statistics only refer to the population that is 16 to 64 years old. [iii]
  • This means that one in six persons (15.7%) of the working age population (aged 16 to 64) has either a long-standing health problem or a disability. [iv]
  • One European in four declares having a member of their family affected by a disability. [v]
  • At 32.2% Finland has the highest percentage prevalence of long standing disability in the European Union.[vi]
  • The Netherlands has the third highest prevalence of disability in the European Union with 25.4% of their population. [vii]
  • 6.6% of the Italian population are disabled, one of the lowest figures in the European Union. [viii]
  • 5.8% of the Romanian population have a long term disability. [ix]
  • There are over 10 million disabled people in Russia. Approximately 700,000 of these are children and young adults up to the age of 18. [x]
  • The United Kingdom has the second highest prevalence of disability with 27.2% of the population having a long-standing health problem or disability. [xi]

 

Source

 

Disability in Europe

  • 5.8% of the Romanian population have a long term disability. [ ... 
  • There are over 10 million disabled people in Russia. ... 
  • The United Kingdom has the second highest prevalence of disability with 27.2% of the population having a long-standing health problem or disability

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#19 Jango1969

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Posted 20 July 2017

Just like to say as a disabled person, I have a full time job, no benefits and no blue badge. 


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#20 Colin James

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Posted 20 July 2017

Just like to say as a disabled person, I have a full time job, no benefits and no blue badge. 

 

Good for you Jango  :Thumbs-Up:


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#21 ragwert

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Posted 21 July 2017

 

Where are you getting these figures, because this does not add up at all.

 

How can Poland with a population less than half of that of the UK (37 million) have the highest level of disability in Europe? 

 

Germany has a population of over 80 million, Italy has a population of over 60 million, France has over 66 million, Ukraine has over 40 million and Spain has a population of over 45 million.

 

 

Disability in Europe
  • The total number of the population with a long-standing health problem or a disability (LSHPD) in 25 European countries is estimated to account for more than 45 million citizens. [ii]
  • These European Union statistics only refer to the population that is 16 to 64 years old. [iii]
  • This means that one in six persons (15.7%) of the working age population (aged 16 to 64) has either a long-standing health problem or a disability. [iv]
  • One European in four declares having a member of their family affected by a disability. [v]
  • At 32.2% Finland has the highest percentage prevalence of long standing disability in the European Union.[vi]
  • The Netherlands has the third highest prevalence of disability in the European Union with 25.4% of their population. [vii]
  • 6.6% of the Italian population are disabled, one of the lowest figures in the European Union. [viii]
  • 5.8% of the Romanian population have a long term disability. [ix]
  • There are over 10 million disabled people in Russia. Approximately 700,000 of these are children and young adults up to the age of 18. [x]
  • The United Kingdom has the second highest prevalence of disability with 27.2% of the population having a long-standing health problem or disability. [xi]

 

Source

 

Disability in Europe

  • 5.8% of the Romanian population have a long term disability. [ ... 
  • There are over 10 million disabled people in Russia. ... 
  • The United Kingdom has the second highest prevalence of disability with 27.2% of the population having a long-standing health problem or disability

 

I got my stats from the best site out there ILO 

http://www.ilo.org/g...g--en/index.htm


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#22 K.Butt

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Posted 21 July 2017

I have read both topics and have to agree, less or no benefits and you appear to have less disabled people, strange that.  

 

Less claiming yes, thats what happens when a country like the UK just hands out benefits without too much checking and then when the government want to do an overhaul of disabled benefits, guess what, they don't like it and kick off! I am really not at all surprised that you didn't see anyone on a mobility scooter on your recent trip. It is no wonder our country is in such a state, even fat people are classed as disabled now, what is that all about? 


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#23 bobby47

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Posted 21 July 2017

I do grasp the point that we in Britain provide a great number of disabled parking spaces. It's not an unfair point to make but to compare our Country to some other nations who don't provide aid and support and who's concern and care for those who are vulnerable is often questionable by our standards because they themselves are literally second world countries and are poor is I think very unfair on Britain. Rather than see our kindness and concern as a weakness I like to see it as a strength and validates the very reason we are often spoken of as great.
They say that a society and it's advancement can be measured by how they treat the weak and the vulnerable. And, because Britain is a great place and an advanced society, I don't think that it's such a bad thing that Britain provides as much as it can afford for those less fortunate than me.
Yes, we have a lot of parking bays for those with disability and I can understand those who look to other countries to see how they do things. But these countries are poor and through design or intended consequence they do not see their citizens welfare in quite the same way as Britain does.
I'll end by saying this. To view those with disability as a source of concern that they may be exploiting their disability for reward is a harsh position to take and one which shows our countries growing intolerance toward difference. My Grandaughter has a serious disability that'll require her to be cared for all her life. Unless you knew exactly what you were talking about or looking for, if ever you met me with my Grandaughter I worry that you'd conclude that she was one of those that you think is taking advantage of Britains kindness and generosity toward those who can't manage without our help.
Finally, we don't use a Blue Badge. We don't want one. Whilst it would be easy to obtain one for our girl, we will never apply to the Council because of two reasons. One, we can afford to pay our way. Two, I wouldn't countenance ever getting any help from this Council and allowing the bastards across our threshold and getting their bureaucratic teeth into our lives.
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#24 dippyhippy

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Posted 21 July 2017

Good to read your thoughts, Bobby.

I discussed this thread with my brother in law - who hails from Poland. He is old enough to remember life pre 1989. His take is that the disabled population is hidden. He says that unless you are in a large town/city, disabled access - such as dropped kerbs, ramps etc. - is woefully inadequate, and many people with physical disabilities can be prisoners in their own homes. He tells me that although attitudes towards the disabled are changing - and he notes that those with learning disabilities in particular, can be treated in a pretty dismal way - there is still a long way to go.

We discussed at length, those horrific images which appeared on our TV screens not that long ago, of orphanages in Romania, where children born with a disability were tied to cot rails and more or less left. There was no point in crying - they had learnt that all too often,nobody came to comfort them.

There are countries where the disabled are not seen as equal. Those countries have and are making progress in the right direction, but it will be some time before disability rights are where they should be.

To those who view holders of blue badges 'scammers' or seem to think that the majority of those in receipt of disability benefits in the UK are playing the system, I'd put money on the fact that those people would happily hand back those badges/benefits for a life that hasn't been shaped by disability and tainted by people's prejudices towards them.

Edited by dippyhippy, 21 July 2017 .

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Proud to be a tolerant and compassionate tree hugger. Blessed with common decency and humanity. Willing to speak up for those in need. Prepared to challenge the bigoted views which seem to be aired so freely.... 

 

Sending peace and love, to my fellow lefties.


#25 K.Butt

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Posted 21 July 2017

Good to read your thoughts, Bobby.

I discussed this thread with my brother in law - who hails from Poland. He is old enough to remember life pre 1989. His take is that the disabled population is hidden. He says that unless you are in a large town/city, disabled access - such as dropped kerbs, ramps etc. - is woefully inadequate, and many people with physical disabilities can be prisoners in their own homes. He tells me that although attitudes towards the disabled are changing - and he notes that those with learning disabilities in particular, can be treated in a pretty dismal way - there is still a long way to go.

We discussed at length, those horrific images which appeared on our TV screens not that long ago, of orphanages in Romania, where children born with a disability were tied to cot rails and more or less left. There was no point in crying - they had learnt that all too often,nobody came to comfort them.

There are countries where the disabled are not seen as equal. Those countries have and are making progress in the right direction, but it will be some time before disability rights are where they should be.

To those who view holders of blue badges 'scammers' or seem to think that the majority of those in receipt of disability benefits in the UK are playing the system, I'd put money on the fact that those people would happily hand back those badges/benefits for a life that hasn't been shaped by disability and tainted by people's prejudices towards them.

 

I bet you have never been to either Poland or Romania, Poland is not a poor country, in fact their national debt is far less than that of the UK. 

 

I think that the point being made here is not about the GEUINE disabled people but more about people who are playing the system and if you think there are not many then you are very naive. I worked in the DHSS for many years and I saw it all.  


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#26 Colin James

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Posted 21 July 2017

I bet you have never been to either Poland or Romania, Poland is not a poor country, in fact their national debt iOS far less than that of the UK. 

 

I think that the point being made here is not about the GEUINE disabled people but more about people who are playing the system and if you think there are not many then you are very naive. I worked in the DHSS for many years and I saw it all.  

 

Correct!

 

The point I was making is about the scammers here in the UK compared to other nations listed in this topic, Spain and Poland and I have spent considerable time in both countries over the past 10 years and I lived in the Canary Islands for over 2 years.

 

You see disabled people but not that many in fairness, I didn't see one mobility scooter for the week I spent in Bielsko-Biała last week, not one! We arrived back in the UK and saw a very overweight person bombing along through high town smoking a cigarette on a mobility scooter within 15 minutes of going into the city centre. I managed to park my car in Broad St, dropped off 2 huge bags of clothes at the charity shop, paid a cheques into the bank and the chap in the queue behind me said his parking was about to run out and he hoped that the cashier would not be long, I explained that my transaction would be quick as I also needed to get back to my car. I left the bank and went back to my car, then I noticed this chap from the bank running to his car which was parked in the disabled bay 2 up from where I was parked, I watched him removed his blue badge and drive off, I have to be honest he didn't look disabled to me, yet my sister has a severely mentally disabled daughter (my niece), she cannot look after herself at all, she knows who we are and calls my name but it is limited however, she in not entitled to a blue badge because she can walk over 100 metres, makes my blood boil! 

 

As for the comments about Poland being a poor country, I really suggest that people take a visit there as some seem stuck in this WW11 time-warp vision somehow and probably think it is cold too.   :Hmm:  Some interesting statistics can be found here

My GF sits here in her wooden clogs for slippers and is smiling when she reads some of these comments and just chuckles.


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#27 Irena Sulecka

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Posted 21 July 2017

As for the comments about Poland being a poor country, I really suggest that people take a visit there as some seem stuck in this WW11 time-warp vision somehow and probably think it is cold too.   :Hmm:  Some interesting statistics can be found here

My GF sits here in her wooden clogs for slippers and is smiling when she reads some of these comments and just chuckles.

 

I know exactly where you gf is coming from Colin. It is abundantly clear that the people who make such comments have NEVER been to Poland, especially in the last 20 years. Poland is very clean compared to the UK, I have never seen so much rubbish on the streets, in Poland you just would not dream of throwing rubbish on the floor, the police would give you a ticket instantly! The streets and subways like you have pointed out are spotless. The towns and cities have some beautiful history with wonderful architecture and landscapes but are equally very modern.

 

We look after our old people and vulnerable but we don't allow people to exploit these kind benefits designed to help. My cousin has a disability but insists on working, I appreciate a lot of people are unable to work but during my many many years here in the UK I get the distinct impression that it is becoming more and more a victim society sadly and this money that is being exploited is not reaching the real people who need it the most. I am pleased that you have highlighted these issues in this discussion.


Edited by Irena Sulecka, 21 July 2017 .

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#28 bobby47

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Posted 22 July 2017

Every single former Soviet Bloc nation that's now in the EU is, in terms of its global or regional economic status a second world poor Country. It is! It's no insult. There's absolutely nothing wrong in being poor. The EU, bless the bastards, recognise this reality and hence the reason they take western money and send it east or centrally to help these nations build up their infra structure, put in place social programmes that meet the needs of its people and create economic activity so that the people don't have to leave their country to earn a living.
There's nothing wrong in being poor. I grew up bloody poor. I've served in literally all these places and whilst it ain't bloody particularly cold, not as cold as Siberia, and I've been there to, these countries are poor which subsequently doesn't allow them to treat people of difference and disability in the same way as Britain or other wealthy EU nations.
Bloody hell! Why are wonderful people like Colin's girl and our Irena here. They're here because Britain is rich, the wages and opportunities are greater than in their home country which, in comparison to many western countries, is a poor country and this poverty drives them away to seek a more prosperous life.
I ain't trying to insult anyone here. I'm simply stating the bleeding obvious
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#29 Bill Thomas

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Posted 22 July 2017

Every single former Soviet Bloc nation that's now in the EU is, in terms of its global or regional economic status a second world poor Country. It is! It's no insult. There's absolutely nothing wrong in being poor. The EU, bless the bastards, recognise this reality and hence the reason they take western money and send it east or centrally to help these nations build up their infra structure, put in place social programmes that meet the needs of its people and create economic activity so that the people don't have to leave their country to earn a living.
There's nothing wrong in being poor. I grew up bloody poor. I've served in literally all these places and whilst it ain't bloody particularly cold, not as cold as Siberia, and I've been there to, these countries are poor which subsequently doesn't allow them to treat people of difference and disability in the same way as Britain or other wealthy EU nations.
Bloody hell! Why are wonderful people like Colin's girl and our Irena here. They're here because Britain is rich, the wages and opportunities are greater than in their home country which, in comparison to many western countries, is a poor country and this poverty drives them away to seek a more prosperous life.
I ain't trying to insult anyone here. I'm simply stating the bleeding obvious

 

Utter pish! Yes these countries have received money from the EU, the same as ALL the other EU countries including the UK but they are also paying their subscriptions to the EU at the same time. Poland is also one of only 5 countries our of 28 countries paying its full percentage to NATO unlike the likes of Germany, France, and Italy to name just a few.

 

I was in Poland in 2015 and in 2012 and I was amazed how beautiful and modern the country was, far from poor I would have to say.

 

It was nice to walk around and just see Polish people together with tourists, a lot different to my experience walking around Southall in London this week, it didn't feel like I was in England I can assure you. (now start calling me a racist)


Edited by Bill Thomas, 22 July 2017 .

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#30 Colin James

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Posted 22 July 2017

Every single former Soviet Bloc nation that's now in the EU is, in terms of its global or regional economic status a second world poor Country. It is! It's no insult. There's absolutely nothing wrong in being poor. The EU, bless the bastards, recognise this reality and hence the reason they take western money and send it east or centrally to help these nations build up their infra structure, put in place social programmes that meet the needs of its people and create economic activity so that the people don't have to leave their country to earn a living.
There's nothing wrong in being poor. I grew up bloody poor. I've served in literally all these places and whilst it ain't bloody particularly cold, not as cold as Siberia, and I've been there to, these countries are poor which subsequently doesn't allow them to treat people of difference and disability in the same way as Britain or other wealthy EU nations.
Bloody hell! Why are wonderful people like Colin's girl and our Irena here. They're here because Britain is rich, the wages and opportunities are greater than in their home country which, in comparison to many western countries, is a poor country and this poverty drives them away to seek a more prosperous life.
I ain't trying to insult anyone here. I'm simply stating the bleeding obvious

 

Bobby, when were you last in Poland, 1980?

 

You have upset my girl now, she is NOT here for the money or because the UK is rich, I can assure you of that! She came here on a 3 month holiday to stay with her friend, that is when we met, that was over 10 years ago, she is only here because of me and would not hesitate to return to Poland at the first opportunity make no mistake about that. To be honest, when she lived in Poland she had a better job and better money than she currently earns here, she is highly educated with several degrees and speaks more than 5 languages, she does not need the UK.


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