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Should I pay a private parking ticket?


H.Wilson

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The below is slightly off post but might be if interest - our dog travels with us everywhere, when he is left in the car we leave the windows ajar ,this carries a risk of the ticket being blown away hence my reason in writing to the Council i- this was the reply I receive. I do now carry a bulldog clip in the car at attach the ticket to.

 

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the usage of non-adhesive pay and display tickets rather than the adhesive ones that we used up until a couple of years ago. Hopefully my explanation will give you a better understanding of my decision to move away from adhesive tickets and why I prefer non-adhesive tickets.

 

1. Non adhesive P+D tickets are used by many other authorities and are around £1.00 per thousand cheaper. We use around two million tickets a year so there are good financial reasons.

2. Less time is spent putting tickets into the P+D machines all around the county, as non-adhesive tickets come in batches of 5000 rather than 3000 (adhesive). This is because there is more paper on adhesive tickets so take up more space.

3. The non-adhesive tickets are also more environmentally friendly with nearly half as much paper used and obviously no glue. A lot of people do not like the residue that the adhesive tickets leaves on the windscreen.

4. Adhesive tickets result in more P+D machine problems with the residue from the glue causing ticket cutting problems in the winter. We found that on very cold days the tickets ‘dragged’ in the machines which resulted in them being cut in half. Some people had half a ticket and the next person got one and a half tickets! Since we have moved over to non-adhesive tickets this problem has been totally resolved so less machine down time.

5. Although non-adhesive tickets do occasionally get knocked or blown off the dash board the team which deals with challenges against penalty charge notices have informed me that they now have less challenges against the PCN’s for tickets that are not displayed correctly. This may in part be due to, previously on hot summer days (wish we had more!) the glue occasionally 'melted' resulting in P+D tickets falling off the car windows.

6. From an enforcement view it is easier and quicker for the CEO's as tickets are now left on the dash board rather than on different windows of the vehicles.

 

If a PCN is issued to a vehicle where the P+D ticket has blown onto the footwell or the P+D ticket is displayed face down, any mitigating circumstances such as this are taken into account by the team who deals with the challenges and often a motorist is able to produce a valid ticket which helps in their challenge.

 

Yours Sincerely

David Hepworth

Parking Enforcement Team Leader

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There is a slight problem I have with not paying a parking ticket. When I park at the Welsh Social club it's free as I'm a member and pay for the privilege. I would not park in asda for four hours and expect to stay there for free.

The Welsh club car park is rented from the council the WSC doesn't own the land it rents it about £4000 a year.

All I see here are people wanting to get something for free. So on the same token we don't have to pay for car parking at the hospital do we....Oh we do!

Shakes head. If you have a driveway and i park on it you would do me for trespass and rightly so so isn't the WSC entitled to charge a levee.

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There is a slight problem I have with not paying a parking ticket. When I park at the Welsh Social club it's free as I'm a member and pay for the privilege. I would not park in asda for four hours and expect to stay there for free.

The Welsh club car park is rented from the council the WSC doesn't own the land it rents it about £4000 a year.

All I see here are people wanting to get something for free. So on the same token we don't have to pay for car parking at the hospital do we....Oh we do!

Shakes head. If you have a driveway and i park on it you would do me for trespass and rightly so so isn't the WSC entitled to charge a levee.

 

Craig, first of all WSC are NOT the landowners, so therefore CANNOT make a charge for the use car park, any charge for misuse can only be made by the landowner themselves and this can only represent any quantifiable financial loss as a result of such misuse. H.Wilson had a apparent ticket for £80 for this supposed contravention which is entirely punitive considering the car park is free of any charge for its use. Secondly, it is NOT A TICKET and finally, its about the scammers issuing unrealistic unlawful tactics to earn big profits, I suggest you read all of the topics because the IP is actually a member of the club.

If the club are so worried about someone parking in their leased car park for 10 minutes on a Sunday morning their best option, like the hospital would be to install a barrier but I think its damaging to the club and its good reputation allowing some heavy handed PPC to have a licence to print money.

PPC's use a form contractual law to fine vehicle keepers, which is unlawful and unenforcable. Private companies cannot issue penalties or fines!

 

Even the BBC Watchdog is discussing exactly this

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  • 2 weeks later...

Craig, first of all WSC are NOT the landowners, so therefore CANNOT make a charge for the use car park, any charge for misuse can only be made by the landowner themselves and this can only represent any quantifiable financial loss as a result of such misuse. H.Wilson had a apparent ticket for £80 for this supposed contravention which is entirely punitive considering the car park is free of any charge for its use. Secondly, it is NOT A TICKET and finally, its about the scammers issuing unrealistic unlawful tactics to earn big profits, I suggest you read all of the topics because the IP is actually a member of the club.

If the club are so worried about someone parking in their leased car park for 10 minutes on a Sunday morning their best option, like the hospital would be to install a barrier but I think its damaging to the club and its good reputation allowing some heavy handed PPC to have a licence to print money.

 

 

Even the BBC Watchdog is discussing exactly this

https://www.youtube....d&v=XAIcdi9niHA

Spot on  :Thumbs-Up:

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  • 8 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Hi All, I am a newbie and this is my first post!!

 

I work for a charity that is housed in a large office block in Hereford with designated parking bays per organisation that the org rents. After a long absence from work due to a car accident I returned to a new office (the org had moved whilst I was off). All other staff had been issued permits to park in designated spaces, unbeknown to me as didnt realise you needed one!! Consequently, I received three parking charge notices issued by Corporate Services Parking Management Hereford! I appealed to firstly, my business manager and then the landlord and have had 2 rescinded but they are still wanting me to pay the third ticket of £60!! I note on this forum that you tell people to ignore them but I am a bit worried as it is connected to my employment? I have been given until tomorrow to pay the £60 any advice welcome please??

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Hi All, I am a newbie and this is my first post!!

 

I work for a charity that is housed in a large office block in Hereford with designated parking bays per organisation that the org rents. After a long absence from work due to a car accident I returned to a new office (the org had moved whilst I was off). All other staff had been issued permits to park in designated spaces, unbeknown to me as didnt realise you needed one!! Consequently, I received three parking charge notices issued by Corporate Services Parking Management Hereford! I appealed to firstly, my business manager and then the landlord and have had 2 rescinded but they are still wanting me to pay the third ticket of £60!! I note on this forum that you tell people to ignore them but I am a bit worried as it is connected to my employment? I have been given until tomorrow to pay the £60 any advice welcome please??

 

Well that is between you are your company, the first mistake you made was contacting the bandits at Corporate Services Parking Management, this is a CIVIL matter and NOTHING to do with your employer unless they are providing the vehicle that you used to park? 

 

If this is your own vehicle do what I did and IGNORE THEM! TOTALLY! DO NOT GET INTO ANY CORRESPONDENCE WITH THEM. The first thing they have to prove is who was driving your vehicle at the time....

 

Do a search on Google for 'Speculative Invoices' then do a separate search for 'Corporate Services Parking Management' there is also some good advice to be had on Martin's Money Saving Expert Forums

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Thanks Colin, I haven't actually contacted CSPM, I went through the landlord and he got the two tickets rescinded. CSPM got my husbands details (he is regd keeper) through DVLA. My parking contravention was for parking without displaying a valid permit in our organisations designated space and as they are members of BPA think they will hound me!!!

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Thanks Colin, I haven't actually contacted CSPM, I went through the landlord and he got the two tickets rescinded. CSPM got my husbands details (he is regd keeper) through DVLA. My parking contravention was for parking without displaying a valid permit in our organisations designated space and as they are members of BPA think they will hound me!!!

  

You will receive several threatening letters but follow Colin's instructions and IGNORE THEM ALL. 

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As stated before this is a speculative invoice,nothing more.The most they would get if it went to court which it never will is the cost of parking for the length of time you were parked.This is the reason they never do take anyone that far.

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So Corporate Services Parking Management are not a legitimate company then and cannot enforce the charge? Just feeling a little anxious as today is last day to pay the £60?? Will I get bailiffs coming to my house?

 

Of course they are legit its just the payment that they are asking for that's in question. This is not a parking ticket, its an invoice, did you search Google as I suggested?

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  • 2 weeks later...
In the Daily Mail today:

 
How the ruthless parking cowboys tell their wardens to exploit the vulnerable
 
* War veterans, great-grandmothers and vulnerable hospital patients are singled out in 'unjust and immoral' practice 
 
* Dozens of elderly drivers tell Mail how they are being threatened and pursued by bailiffs over minor parking queries
 
* Many have fallen victim to a string of 'dirty tricks' with companies said to use intentionally small warnings on signs
 
* Scroll down to print off your free 'Get Lost Parking Pirates' sign, and for details on how to receive a sticker by post
 
Nice to see people fighting back on this dirty racket.
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In the Daily Mail today:
 
 
Nice to see people fighting back on this dirty racket.

 

 

 

Brilliant!!

 

Get Lost.jpg

 

 
Or send off for your FREE Get Lost Parking Pirates car sticker

 

Want to send a message of defiance to the parking pirates? The Daily Mail is here to help.

Simply print out the notice above and put it in a prominent place on your car windscreen or side window.

It tells the parking pirates that you’re on to their outrageous scam and won’t be tricked or bullied into paying bogus fines. 

And we can also send you a fantastic glossy sticker version - absolutely FREE.

To claim yours, simply fill in your name and address on the form below, then print and send it to Parking Pirates, PO Box 5004, Department PCS, Alton, Hants, GU34 9DB.

We’ll send you your glossy self-adhesive sticker - absolutely FREE - within seven days of getting your order.

 

 

 

article-2712690-202B30C900000578-427_964x478.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...

Information for you guys:

 

I had parked in the car park opposite the Sweet Chilli Indian Restaurant at 8pm on Sunday night the 29th of May (This is the car park along side the Black Lion pub) There was nowhere to park on the main road and I was only popping into the Indian to collect my meal, however, 10 minutes later when I came out some little **** has placed an SPECULATIVE INVOICE disguised as a parking ticket/parking charge notice on my windscreen. 

 

I love these so called tickets/parking charge notice, it said I had a received a penalty of £100 but this was kindly reduced to £60 if I paid it within 30 days, yeah right! Normally I would ignore these scammers! But I decided to appeal to POPLA using their online appeal of which the details are printed on the penalty notice and you can also find their details on many forums including moneysavingexpert forums.

 

I appealed to Corporate Services with this letter for a laugh:

 

30th May 2014
 
Dear Corporate Services,
 
Notice Number **** - Vehicle Reg ******
 
I am writing this letter of appeal, my vehicle (Mercedes Vito) was parked in the car park at the back of the black Lion yesterday evening (29/05/14) at 20.04. I had been in the Black Lion for 15 minutes maximum! The car park was completely empty with the exception of a blue van.
 
I deny any debt to your company and will not make any payment in the absence of a court judgement. If you believe that you are legally entitled to a payment, please go ahead immediately with the action that you have threatened.
 
If I do not receive court papers within two weeks from the date of this email, I will draw the obvious conclusion and regard the matter as closed.
 
Don't waste my time and your stationery with any other letters.
 
They will be ignored!
 
Yours Faithfully
 
Colin James

 

 

This was their standard response:

 

Dear Mr James,
 
Re: Parking Charge Notice Number **** (Vehicle: ******)
 
Site: Bridge Street Private Car Park Issue date: 29/05/2014
 
Corporate Services
 
02 June 2014
 
Thank you for your appeal received on 30/05/2014 regarding the above detailed Parking Charge Notice. We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have made. This appeal has been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered by the parking attendant. Our records show that the notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking.
 
We are therefore unable to cancel the Parking Charge Notice as it was issued correctly. We have now extended the discounted payment period to allow you time to pay the discounted settlement amount. Please now make payment of £60 to reach us by 16/06/2014 or £100 to reach us by 30/06/2014. We must advise you that once the discounted settlement rate passes it will not be offered again.
 
You are required to display a valid permit when parking in this car park. These conditions are clearly displayed on the signage on site. As this vehicle was not clearly displaying a valid permit we uphold our operatives decision.
 
Payments can be made by cheque or postal order made payable to Corporate Services. Please ensure you write your Parking Charge Notice number clearly on the reverse.. Payment can be made using a debit or credit card on our website at www.herefordshirecspm.org. For our full Complaints Procedure please visit our website.
 
If you wish to appeal against our decision you may be able appeal to Parking on Private Land Appeals System (POPLA). Please visit their website, www.popla.org, for further information on grounds for appeal and to download an appeals form. You will require the verification code *********** to access this service.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
Appeals Department
CORPORATE SERVICES (PARKING MANAGEMENT)

 

 

 

Long story short - I decided to appeal to POPLA and guess what, I won my appeal!!

 

Once POPLA allow your appeal the scammers have to cancel their penalty immediately. 

 

This is the response from POPLA Accessor:

 

Colin James (Appellant)
-v-
Corporate Services (Hereford) Limited (Operator)
 
The Operator issued parking charge notice number ***** arising out of the presence at The Black Lion, on 29 May 2014, of a vehicle with registration mark ******.
 
The Appellant appealed against liability for the parking charge.
 
The Assessor has considered the evidence of both parties and has
determined that the appeal be allowed.
 
The Assessor’s reasons are as set out.
 
The Operator should now cancel the parking charge notice forthwith.
 
Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination
 
At 20:04 on 29 May 2014, the operator’s employee observed the vehicle, registration mark ******, parked on The Black Lion property and not displaying a permit. The employee issued a parking charge notice and gathered photographic evidence. This is not disputed by the appellant.
 
The appellant made representations, stating that: the charge did not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, the signage was inadequate to create a contract, the operator had no right to enter into contracts in its own name in respect of the site, and required planning consent had not been shown.
 
The operator rejected the representations. In regard to the genuine pre- estimate of loss issue, the operator stated that the charge represented a genuine pre-estimate of loss, and provided a breakdown of figures.
 
Considering the evidence before me, I find that the operator has not provided evidence of an initial loss, which is a loss incurred prior to enforcement action being taken, such as the loss of the parking fee in the case of a pay and display car park where no ticket was purchased. Once such a loss is shown, losses flowing from it may be claimed, but without such a loss that is not the case. Whilst the losses stated by the operator may well flow from a breach, and initial loss must be shown in order to claim costs in respect of them. As an initial loss must be shown in order for a charge to constitute a genuine pre-estimate of loss, the operator has failed to show that the charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Therefore the charge notice is invalid. Having found this, I am not required to consider any further issues raised by the appellant.
 
Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.
 
Christopher Monk
Assessor

 

 
 
Personally, I would just IGNORE these private companies completely!! But I just wanted to explore what happens when you follow the correct procedures and advice given and you can see the result for yourselves.
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As a citizen of this city and who have used the club many times in accordance with the rules of the club patrons can use the car park that does not mean you have to be a member of that club the same applies to public houses i have never agreed with having to pay for parking it should be free then you will see an upturn in the city shops look at how many buildings that are empty false economy by the council when you balance the cost of business revenue lost to what it costs to administer parking charges go onto the council website and see what the accounts say makes very grim reading a business will always reinvest when it has constant regular customer base it will not if it does not have one.

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Whilst POPLA appears to be a quasi-judicial service, it has no statutory status. It was established by the British Parking Association (BPA) and is funded by the parking industry. It is operated independently and administered on behalf of the BPA by London Councils, who already provide statutory tribunals for parking, traffic and other enforcement. They handle over 600 appeals a week, which is rising rapidly as the word gets out about the shysters operating these scams. 

 

Corporate Services had 68 appeals registered against them with POPLA from 1 April 2013 to 31 March 2014, of which 10 were allowed and 38 refused with presumably the balance rolled over to the next year.

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  • 5 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Anyone had any experience with Sainsburys Euro car parking? 

 

I have a ticket today. 

 

I spent £140 in the shop but the parking attendant doesn't care about that, the car park is operated by Euro Car Parks. 

 

Apparently I was parked over the line - and as such a nice notice on my car. 

 

So my question is, is this an enforceable notice? Do I HAVE to pay or only an option to pay? 

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Anyone had any experience with Sainsburys Euro car parking? 

 

I have a ticket today. 

 

I spent £140 in the shop but the parking attendant doesn't care about that, the car park is operated by Euro Car Parks. 

 

Apparently I was parked over the line - and as such a nice notice on my car. 

 

So my question is, is this an enforceable notice? Do I HAVE to pay or only an option to pay? 

 

Well first of all Dan I would be complaining to the Hereford store manager and show him your receipt. Secondly, this is a speculative invoice, NOT a ticket, big difference my friend.

 

​I'm sure it's been on here before that a company cannot issue any kind of Penalty Notice if they don't have an interest in the land. If it was a public highway the ticket should have no authority whatsoever.

 
Personally I would not pay it and just ignore it and any other letters they are bound to send you or simply ask them to prove that you owe them the money. I bet they can't!
 
Have a read through these articles mate.
 
Parking campaigner Barrie Segal, of AppealNow, argues that private parking contracts used to justify penalties fall under the 1999 Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, and thus the sum they demand must be deemed ‘fair and reasonable.’ 
This gives a defence against firms demanding £100 or more in parking charges, on the basis that this vastly overvalues your parking and any effect not paying has on them. 
You can fight a ticket on the basis that terms must be clear and fair. If any signs are hidden, confusing or too small, or you can argue that you did not see them then a contract is not valid.
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