Cannot Purchase Hot Food In Hereford City After 1.30am

[Biomech]

the whole committee gives their own opinion based on information in front of us,

 

 

Glenda, may I ask then, what was the crunch point for the committee for allowing cold food but not hot food? Because, everything thing else about this topic becomes irrelevant as soon as you allow one type but not the other of the same thing.

 

What I mean is that whether the food is hot or cold is inconsequential - so the decision to place a curfew on hot food suppliers must have a  specific argument that favours cold food. What was it?

[Roger]

Glenda, may I ask then, what was the crunch point for the committee for allowing cold food but not hot food? Because, everything thing else about this topic becomes irrelevant as soon as you allow one type but not the other of the same thing.

 

What I mean is that whether the food is hot or cold is inconsequential - so the decision to place a curfew on hot food suppliers must have a  specific argument that favours cold food. What was it?

I can answer that one. The Licensing Act 2003 was written in Westminster and in it there is provision that you need a Licence to sell hot food/drink between 11 pm and 5 am. Cold food was not included. Nothing to do with the Council other than they can choose to issue the Licence or not. They haven't made the rule (the Govt. did) ~ they just apply it. There are a few exceptions to needing a licence. One of them is getting a hot coffee from a machine at a garage if you operate it yourself for instance. Hence the 24/7 coffee machine at the BP garage on Commercial Road.

 

When the Act was written I've no doubt the Govt. looked at the general situation at the time. If takeaways were open late I would suggest the vast majority were selling hot food at the time. And I can't recall any anecdotal reports from 10 years ago suggesting that there were problems outside late night sandwich shops. 

[Biomech]

Thanks for that Roger.

 

But the question remains, if hot food outlets are allowed to stay open until 5am.... then our council MUST have made some kind of distinction between the hot food and the cold food outlets to stop only hotfoods from being served.

 

In it's simplest form I guess; "What was the councils argument to allow cold food places to stay open and not hot food places when they both sell food and create the same impact and social activity"

[Biomech]

For example;

 

"We differentiated hot food shops from cold food shops as we believed that drunk people would put their heads in the deep fat fryer, thus hot food outlets were considered a safety risk"

[Roger]

Thanks for that Roger.

 

But the question remains, if hot food outlets are allowed to stay open until 5am.... then our council MUST have made some kind of distinction between the hot food and the cold food outlets to stop only hotfoods from being served.

 

In it's simplest form I guess; "What was the councils argument to allow cold food places to stay open and not hot food places when they both sell food and create the same impact and social activity"

The Council can't stop cold food being served as it's outside the scope of the Act. If they could I'm sure they would as these places are attracting the same people who would go to a chip or kebab shop if they were open. When the legislation is next tinkered with then, I suppose, the cold food may well be sucked into the situation so that the Council can ban something else. 

[Biomech]

The Council can't stop cold food being served as it's outside the scope of the Act.

 

I think I misinterpreted your previous post regarding 11pm-5am.

 

So essentially, what you're saying is that the council want them all shut, but they only have the power to hinder hotfood suppliers.

 

Which makes sense and answers my question :)

 

But again, I'd like to raise the point of anti-competitive law as the nightclubs are serving hot food during the times when independent vendors are prohibited - thus creating a monopoly,

[Roger]

I think I misinterpreted your previous post regarding 11pm-5am.

 

So essentially, what you're saying is that the council want them all shut, but they only have the power to hinder hotfood suppliers.

 

Correct. I suspect tho that if they could shut the sandwich shops at 1.30 am they would. The cops want to disincentivise people from hanging about after the pubs/clubs have shut. So if there's nothing open then the theory is that people will clear off. 

 

I don't know why they don't employ the same tactic in Worcester where I'm told hot food outlets are open after 1.30 am. I can't imagine that their night scene is too different to Hereford. If anything it's probably busier as it's a University City and I gather students like the occasional alcoholic drink ... :-) 

[Adrian Pitt]

But something does not add up here because I managed to get a hot pasty from the garage at 3am last week. The girl in the garage put it in he microwave for me, that's hot food and this is all some takeaways do with some of their food, no difference really.

 

I have also been reading the discussion above between Roger and Biomech, which is interesting but how does this effect Tesco? You have discussed this issue based on food outlets but you can buy food 24 hours a day from Tesco and Asda so it's okay for them to sell food. This is a great discussion and I am glad that Colin has brought it to our attention, personally, I cant see what the difference in food temperature, ultimately when you have been out for a few beers or to a club, when you come out your hungry and you will find somewhere to serve you food. The council should reverse this and allow takeaways to close when THEY decide, this is bordering on discrimination in my view and these small business's rely mainly on their weekend trade.

[Biomech]

But something does not add up here because I managed to get a hot pasty from the garage at 3am last week. The girl in the garage put it in he microwave for me, that's hot food and this is all some takeaways do with some of their food, no difference really.

 

 

God knows, I believe that they backtracked on the pasty tax so you did really well that night :P

 

 You have discussed this issue based on food outlets but you can buy food 24 hours a day from Tesco and Asda 

 

 

 

What Roger was saying is that ANYONE can sell hot or cold food 24 hours a day.

However, to serve hot food between 11pm and 5am you need a licence from the council.

The council don't want people to serve food, but they can only stop the hot food suppliers by not letting them have a licence.

 

Tesco and Asda, afaik, don't serve hot food at night, if they wanted to, they would have to get a licence.

 

I don't know if the law(?) distinguishes between hot food that is cooked / cooked to order and heated food (ie your microwave pasty)

[Roger]

But something does not add up here because I managed to get a hot pasty from the garage at 3am last week. The girl in the garage put it in he microwave for me, that's hot food and this is all some takeaways do with some of their food, no difference really.

 

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/other/9780108511400/9780108511400.pdf

 

I've linked to the latest guidance that I saw on the web from April 2012. The relevant bit is on page 25 which outlines that you can buy a hot drink from a garage without a licence if you vend it yourself. If you buy hot food from the premises then a licence is required for the establishment.

 

'3.14 Some premises provide hot food or hot drink between 11.00pm and 5.00am by means of 

vending machines. The supply of hot drink by a vending machine is not a licensable activity 

and is exempt under the 2003 Act provided the public have access to and can operate the 

machine without any involvement of the staff.

 

3.15 However, this exemption does not apply to hot food. Premises supplying hot food for a 

charge by vending machine are licensable if the food has been heated on the premises, 

even though no staff on the premises may have been involved in the transaction.'

[Biomech]

So who wants to open a pasty shop with a shelf full of 20 microwaves? ;)

[bethlouise96]

As a newly 18 year old female who enjoys a night out, this really bugs me! I cannot think of any possible reason for this rule?! Since when has eating caused violence or crime?  I usually go and get something to eat to sober up! What has really tipped it off for me is that I went out in Ross last Saturday night where they have not much nightlife in comparison to Hereford but I remember saying to my friend at approx 9pm 'the drink has gone straight to my head, I need to get something to eat' and after food I was fine! Again what was amazing (from being used to Hereford) was getting out of the club and having a kebab and chips at about 3.30am (don't quote me on that) and yes people were drunk of course, but we all just wanted to eat. If there is any sort of petition or anyway or expressing this further, I would be overly happy to contribute.

Beth

[Colin James]

As a newly 18 year old female who enjoys a night out, this really bugs me! I cannot think of any possible reason for this rule?! Since when has eating caused violence or crime?  I usually go and get something to eat to sober up! What has really tipped it off for me is that I went out in Ross last Saturday night where they have not much nightlife in comparison to Hereford but I remember saying to my friend at approx 9pm 'the drink has gone straight to my head, I need to get something to eat' and after food I was fine! Again what was amazing (from being used to Hereford) was getting out of the club and having a kebab and chips at about 3.30am (don't quote me on that) and yes people were drunk of course, but we all just wanted to eat. If there is any sort of petition or anyway or expressing this further, I would be overly happy to contribute.

Beth

 

Hi Beth and thank you for your comments, your frustrations are echoed by many other people in Hereford. I will be writing again to the HT and the council to see what can be done to get this reversed. Watch this space! 

[Biomech]

You know things are bad when the kids (no offence!) start getting involved in a forum that consists largely of politics :P

[Roger]

As a newly 18 year old female who enjoys a night out, this really bugs me! I cannot think of any possible reason for this rule?! Since when has eating caused violence or crime?  I usually go and get something to eat to sober up! What has really tipped it off for me is that I went out in Ross last Saturday night where they have not much nightlife in comparison to Hereford but I remember saying to my friend at approx 9pm 'the drink has gone straight to my head, I need to get something to eat' and after food I was fine! Again what was amazing (from being used to Hereford) was getting out of the club and having a kebab and chips at about 3.30am (don't quote me on that) and yes people were drunk of course, but we all just wanted to eat. If there is any sort of petition or anyway or expressing this further, I would be overly happy to contribute.

Beth

 

I'd love to know what kebab shop was open at 3.30 am in The Shire! I'll be there tomorrow! I do like kebabs tho ... I've attached a pic of one I ate 2 days ago ... Very nice it was and no after effects! 

[Alex]

I must say Roger that that kebab is making me feel hungry...and from which local kebab house is this beauty from? 

[Roger]

I must say Roger that that kebab is making me feel hungry...and from which local kebab house is this beauty from? 

 

'Best Kebab' in Crewe ... So not local! 

[bethlouise96]

I'd love to know what kebab shop was open at 3.30 am in The Shire! I'll be there tomorrow! I do like kebabs tho ... I've attached a pic of one I ate 2 days ago ... Very nice it was and no after effects! 

 

I don't really know the area (Ross) too well but I'm pretty sure that it was called the Best and it was open after JD's closed on a Saturday night. Like I said don't quote me on the time it was open as I was fairly intoxicated (or smashed if I should put it bluntly) at the time but I know that I went straight home from having a kebab and got home at about 4! So must have been 3/3.30am. I think I may actually prefer Ross for a night out purely on that basis! (Really want a kebab now).

[dippyhippy]

Hi Bethlouise!

A very warm welcome to you!

I have it on good authority that the kebabs from the Charcoal Grill in Commercial Road, are the best in Hereford!

I have only sampled their veggie burgers, which are pretty good, and they do a home delivery service - minimum purchase £10.00!!

[bethlouise96]

Thank you :)

 

Charcoal Grill has to be one of my favorite takeaways in Hereford, but sadly they're not open long enough. I wouldn't even mind if it was delivery service only after say 1am, I just want hot food and I think that the council are seriously restricting Herefords takeaways profitability! Is this to say that a hot food van could not sell food in town either? If that's not the case, I'll start on my business plan!

[Biomech]

Charcoal Grill is epic - best burgers in the world. But yes, unfortunately I don't enjoy them quite as much as they are forced to close during peak business hours.

[Roger]

I don't really know the area (Ross) too well but I'm pretty sure that it was called the Best and it was open after JD's closed on a Saturday night. Like I said don't quote me on the time it was open as I was fairly intoxicated (or smashed if I should put it bluntly) at the time but I know that I went straight home from having a kebab and got home at about 4! So must have been 3/3.30am. I think I may actually prefer Ross for a night out purely on that basis! (Really want a kebab now).

 

Numerous websites have that shop as closing at 00.01 hrs on 7 days a week ... http://www.just-eat.co.uk/restaurants-the-best-hr9 I don't dispute it may have been open later if you got a kebab there but that's what the internet says and presumably it's what the Council have licenced it for ...

 

 

 

Is this to say that a hot food van could not sell food in town either? If that's not the case, I'll start on my business plan!

 

If you run a Café/Restaurant/Snack Bar that is not licensed for the sale of alcohol, a Fish and Chip shop, a Take-Away, a Mobile Catering Vehicle including a Licensed Street Trading Catering Vehicle or other similar premises, and you sell hot food and/or hot drink to the general public between the hours of 11 p.m. and 5 a.m then you need a Council licence. So a van would get the 1.30 am ban as well ... 

 

Charcoal Grill is epic - best burgers in the world. But yes, unfortunately I don't enjoy them quite as much as they are forced to close during peak business hours.

 

I was in there at 10.42 pm on Sunday 16th February and although I do rate the place I was disappointed to see the owner cleaning/wiping down the inside of the display chiller with a spray bottle of common disinfectant and a cloth with the food still in it. I thought there was a chance the cleaner could end up on the food. Here is the chiller (stock internet photo): 

[dippyhippy]

You won't die from a bit of disinfectant Roger!

I am always impressed by how clean this place always appears to be, and its great that food is prepared and cooked in front of you!

 

Wyevale Garden Centre - now they could learn a lesson - last summer, lots of nice looking fresh cream cakes under there chilled display shelves.....but lots of flies under there too!

Yuck! I shall never eat a cake there again!!

[Roger]

You won't die from a bit of disinfectant Roger!

I am always impressed by how clean this place always appears to be, and its great that food is prepared and cooked in front of you!

 

Food ratings scheme is quite good. The Bus Station Cafe in Hereford could be perceived as being a 'greasy spoon' but is rated 5. http://ratings.food.gov.uk/business/en-GB/488956/Bus-Station-Cafe-Hereford

 

Planet Buffet next door (Chinese Buffet) is rated 2. http://ratings.food.gov.uk/business/en-GB/488050/Planet-Buffet-Hereford I think that's an improvement as the rating before that was 1 or 0 ... 

 

Charcoal Grill is rated 5. http://ratings.food.gov.uk/business/en-GB/488182/Hereford-Charcoal-Grill-Hereford

[dippyhippy]

That's good to know!

[Biomech]

You won't die from a bit of disinfectant Roger!

 

 

 

Hit my limit, so +1 to that.

Bloody cotton wool bubble living fools! Spread some bloody mud on it as well, bit of engine grease, it'll do you good :)

[Colin James]

Jamal's in Bridge Street Hereford make a superb kebab

[Biomech]

Last time I went down Bridge Street after a night out the entire street was desolate with not a single light on.
The days of the Rooms and all of those chinese's and kebab shops bristling with customers and money are long long gone.

[H.Wilson]

Ended up walking around Tesco's in town at 2.30am looking for something to eat this morning, we were not the only ones either. Council should be supporting the local trades not killing them off, especially now that the ESG is not far off opening, you would think the council would be doing all that they can for them. 

[Roger]

Nando's is coming to the new development but I don't think it's arrival will challenge this 1.30 rule ... They don't stay open late from my experience ...