Colin James Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Do you think it's ok to have people living in these camps in one of the wealthiest regions of the world Wealthiest regions??? UK National Debt Surpassed £1 Trillion Mainstream media headlines today are focused on Britain's record national debt, which just surpassed £1 trillion, a figure that can only exponentially increase unless the entire mechanism of Government finance is overhauled. The truth however is much worse, factoring in all liabilities including state and public sector pensions, the real national debt is closer to £4.8 trillion, some £78,000 for every person in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 It wasn't the 'torygraph' ... Independent The word 'paper' may not have been used but the jist was there ... The article was quoting Citizens UK as a source for that 200 figure ... Citizens UK You might read that 'jist' but I don't. The article states that they will prepare the cases of around 200 people. Good start. Any comment to make on my other points? By the way, right-wing Finnish bloggers with a racist agenda who get most of their material straight from the Gatestone Institute don't really qualify as authoritative and unbiased sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Wealthiest regions??? UK National Debt Surpassed £1 Trillion Mainstream media headlines today are focused on Britain's record national debt, which just surpassed £1 trillion, a figure that can only exponentially increase unless the entire mechanism of Government finance is overhauled. The truth however is much worse, factoring in all liabilities including state and public sector pensions, the real national debt is closer to £4.8 trillion, some £78,000 for every person in the UK. And yet, we have £40 billion to fritter away on space exploration and the ludicrous Tim Peake, and untold billions for Trident. Yes, the UK and Europe are very wealthy. Look at the standard of living compared to many other regions of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Any comment to make on my other points? No. Not really. Frans Timmermans who is Vice President of the European Commission says the majority of these 'refugees' floating about are 'economic migrants' and shouldn't even be here. Independent Yes, the UK and Europe are very wealthy. Look at the standard of living compared to many other regions of the world. A point well made. These migrants want to share in the Wealth. An economic reason for coming if ever I saw one ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 And yet, we have £40 billion to fritter away on space exploration and the ludicrous Tim Peake, and untold billions for Trident. Yes, the UK and Europe are very wealthy. Look at the standard of living compared to many other regions of the world. Yes I agree this country waste a lot of money on things I couldn't care less about either but we too have high unemployment depredation food banks child poverty lack of integration failing healthy services cutbacks to social care a government who want to privatise everything where only a few of the wealthy will benefit it's not quite the utopia you seem to paint? Those countries you state we have been involved in military action in some of them but not all…they have also received billions in aid unfortunately very little of it goes to where it is supposed to but rather into private bank accounts of corrupt individuals within those governments in fact we live in a very corrupt world. I understand where your coming from but you are not coming up with any logical solution to the problems of this worldwide crises only that of to let them all in? Which I do not think is going to work as it's a rather cavalier approach & will end up creating more problems than it solves further down the line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 So many things are being cut back in this country including police numbers and there is a danger that this country is leaving itself wide open to problems that it has not go the capability of sorting out. Yes it would be lovely to welcome thousands of people into this country to give them a better life but have we really got the resources to cover all eventualities? In my experience people are very quick to preach about what should be done but when it comes down to it do very little themselves to alleviate the situation. Without identifying yourself Osmosis have you got first hand experience of the refugee camps and what are you personally and financially prepared to do to help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Without identifying yourself Osmosis have you got first hand experience of the refugee camps and what are you personally and financially prepared to do to help? I don't know Osmosis either but the poster, I would guess, lives in far more comfortable domestic circumstances than at least one family living in a squalid tent in the Calais 'Jungle'. I would suggest that Osmosis, as a demonstration of good will, goes and buys a tent from J Mart and pitches it on the Bishops Meadow and lives in it. That will free up some accommodation for a group far more deserving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Yes I agree this country waste a lot of money on things I couldn't care less about either but we too have high unemployment depredation food banks child poverty lack of integration failing healthy services cutbacks to social care a government who want to privatise everything where only a few of the wealthy will benefit it's not quite the utopia you seem to paint? Those countries you state we have been involved in military action in some of them but not all…they have also received billions in aid unfortunately very little of it goes to where it is supposed to but rather into private bank accounts of corrupt individuals within those governments in fact we live in a very corrupt world. I understand where your coming from but you are not coming up with any logical solution to the problems of this worldwide crises only that of to let them all in? Which I do not think is going to work as it's a rather cavalier approach & will end up creating more problems than it solves further down the line! Amnesty International have a set of proposals which I think should be adopted - you can find them here https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2015/10/eight-solutions-world-refugee-crisis/ If you don't agree with them, perhaps you would like to offer your own suggestions? I don't know Osmosis either but the poster, I would guess, lives in far more comfortable domestic circumstances than at least one family living in a squalid tent in the Calais 'Jungle'. I would suggest that Osmosis, as a demonstration of good will, goes and buys a tent from J Mart and pitches it on the Bishops Meadow and lives in it. That will free up some accommodation for a group far more deserving. You are right Roger, I live in a house with furniture and heating, nothing like the conditions of the camps. But unlike you, I think everybody should be able to live like that. So many things are being cut back in this country including police numbers and there is a danger that this country is leaving itself wide open to problems that it has not go the capability of sorting out. Yes it would be lovely to welcome thousands of people into this country to give them a better life but have we really got the resources to cover all eventualities? In my experience people are very quick to preach about what should be done but when it comes down to it do very little themselves to alleviate the situation. Without identifying yourself Osmosis have you got first hand experience of the refugee camps and what are you personally and financially prepared to do to help? Poor Denise, still fretting over my identity. I'm a citizen of the world Denise, just like you, but with different politics. As for resources, it's a matter of prioritising, as I said above. I think things are far from perfect in the UK for many people, but I don't think we should turn our backs on the biggest humanitarian disaster in Europe since WWII. Do you? No. Not really. Frans Timmermans who is Vice President of the European Commission says the majority of these 'refugees' floating about are 'economic migrants' and shouldn't even be here. Independent A point well made. These migrants want to share in the Wealth. An economic reason for coming if ever I saw one ... And your problem with an equal distribution of wealth is...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Funny Osmosis how by attempting to belittle my comment you ignore the point I was making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Funny Osmosis how by attempting to belittle my comment you ignore the point I was making. You made a point about resources. I responded to it. If you think I need to justify my opinions to you by explaining what I personally have contributed, you are mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Amnesty International have a set of proposals which I think should be adopted - you can find them here https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2015/10/eight-solutions-world-refugee-crisis/ If you don't agree with them, perhaps you would like to offer your own suggestions? Osmosis with respect I think if you'd been reading my post you'd of seen I'm in agreement with some of amnesty's ideas however I do not agree with open door policy which we have in Europe. I do think once refugees reach a safe country then there should be a process for them to apply to a country for asylum of there choosing & then for those countries to provide safe passage…I also think counties which create a humanitarian crises especially through conflict should have all international funding halted including the sale of arms with heavy penalties for companies breaking this rule in particular & prison sentence for arms dealers who broker them. Also UN food agencies how much corruption is there in these organisations? Because they receive a lot of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Many of Jungle occupants not refugees, says top UK immigration judge Mr Justice McCloskey said there was “no real basis†for many of the estimated 6,000 people in the makeshift camp to remain there. Many of the occupants of the “Jungle†in Calais are “probably not refugees†but migrants simply trying to get to the UK, Britain’s most senior immigration judge has said. Mr Justice McCloskey said there was “no real basis†for many of the estimated 6,000 people in the makeshift camp to remain there. He said they were likely to be international migrants who plan to claim refugee status here because of “perceived advantages†in the UK rather than France. The judge said: “It seems likely that there is no real basis for many of its occupants remaining indefinitely in the ‘jungle’ and enduring conditions that obtain there. “Many are probably not refugees in any general sense or any sense entitled to recognition. “Rather, they are migrant nationals of a number of countries outside the European Union, who, while intending to make a claim for refugee status, decline to make the claim in France due to perceived advantages, correct or otherwise, of doing so in the United Kingdom.†Telegraph Top Judge in the UK has denounced most of the 'Jungle' dwellers' as fraudsters ... As any rational person thought anyway ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Many of Jungle occupants not refugees, says top UK immigration judge Mr Justice McCloskey said there was “no real basis†for many of the estimated 6,000 people in the makeshift camp to remain there. Telegraph Top Judge in the UK has denounced most of the 'Jungle' dwellers' as fraudsters ... As any rational person thought anyway ... I read it in the Torygraph so it must be true! The UN High Commissioner for Refugees' representative in France, Philippe Leclerc, says that MOST of the migrants in Calais were fleeing violence in countries such as Syria, Eritrea, Somalia and Afghanistan. That makes them refugees in my book, and according to the 1951 Refugee Convention which describes a refugee as someone "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country." Please do show me where Justice McCloskey described the Calais camp people as 'fraudsters' though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Osmosis with respect I think if you'd been reading my post you'd of seen I'm in agreement with some of amnesty's ideas however I do not agree with open door policy which we have in Europe. I do think once refugees reach a safe country then there should be a process for them to apply to a country for asylum of there choosing & then for those countries to provide safe passage…I also think counties which create a humanitarian crises especially through conflict should have all international funding halted including the sale of arms with heavy penalties for companies breaking this rule in particular & prison sentence for arms dealers who broker them. Also UN food agencies how much corruption is there in these organisations? Because they receive a lot of money! Fair enough. But importantly, we don't have an open door policy in the UK, nor are we subject to the quotas that are being proposed for the distribution of refugees across Europe, because of our opt-out. The systems for asylum application are there, they are just very difficult to access in some countries (e.g.France), and slow. Let's not forget, the UK justified military action in some of these counties (Libya, Iraq, Syria) on 'humanitarian' grounds. Now we must face up to the consequences in a humanitarian way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Fair enough. But importantly, we don't have an open door policy in the UK, nor are we subject to the quotas that are being proposed for the distribution of refugees across Europe, because of our opt-out. The systems for asylum application are there, they are just very difficult to access in some countries (e.g.France), and slow. Let's not forget, the UK justified military action in some of these counties (Libya, Iraq, Syria) on 'humanitarian' grounds. Now we must face up to the consequences in a humanitarian way. No we don't have one so the status quo should remain as it is in my opinion No the politicians justified military action to themselves…the UK is giving humanitarian aid too plus we have been giving refugees sanctuary not just since Iraq but before the war there…Uganda for example President Ide Amin after he expelled all the Asian community there the UK did step in to give them refuge here, so you cannot accuse the UK of not facing up to its humanitarian responsibilities now or then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 No we don't have one so the status quo should remain as it is in my opinion No the politicians justified military action to themselves…the UK is giving humanitarian aid too plus we have been giving refugees sanctuary not just since Iraq but before the war there…Uganda for example President Ide Amin after he expelled all the Asian community there the UK did step in to give them refuge here, so you cannot accuse the UK of not facing up to its humanitarian responsibilities now or then! Agreed Cambo, the Ugandan refugees were welcomed here and the UK faced up to its responsibilities - can't really say the same this time round though in my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 A lot of activity on this thread, in the past 24 hours.... A really good read, is a piece called "What History Can Teach Us About The Worst Refugee Crisis Since WW2" A few quotes..' Some nations have locked down their borders, crammed refugees into transit camps, and said they won't take in Muslims, creating alarming echoes of the past for WW2 historians and holocaust survivors.' 'Over 2,700 people have died this year at Europe's borders. A lot of these would have been preventable, with a greater sense of urgency, and better political choices.' 'From the start of the Syria crisis, there has been an inadequate willingness to resettle Syrian refugees. The unspoken reason for this has been fear of admitting large numbers of Muslims. In Europe today, many people have a fear of immigration and terrorism, but there is a small but growing element of latent fascism.... xenophobic narratives need to be countered.' 'We need to help people to be able to help themselves. Refugees have skills, talents and aspirations, and the ability to contribute socially and economically. We should not be leaving people in limbo.' We can do more, we should do more. These folks are human, and deserve to have a decent life. Why is that such an alien concept for some to grasp?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambo Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Agreed Cambo, the Ugandan refugees were welcomed here and the UK faced up to its responsibilities - can't really say the same this time round though in my opinion! I agree we could do more but we need to be sensible & realistic about the level of help we can provide those most at risk should be prioritised which consist mainly of the minority groups Kurds Christian yazidis these particularly groups are in real danger not just from Isis but other jihadist groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 ha ha this is brilliant http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/19/frankie-boyle-jeremy-corbyn-elected-destroyed-murdoch Who doesn't want to see Jeremy Corbyn elected? It would be a glorious six-day reign Frankie Boyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I can't lie...I've kept away from this topic because the arguments are the same. I admit to being a little ashamed more because it exposes our fears and weaknesses. I'm not into religion, politics or commerce because sadly today these three phrases divide us all. In life I have worked for what I have, had no requirement for extravagancess..just enough to eat and support a little home and share it with someone very dear to me. I lost my children some years ago, a big decision at the time but one that was for their benefit ultimately not mine so in a crazy way I can relate to the absolute pain that sits within the hearts of those Syrian parents that part with their children pushing them away from the jaws of certain death to the possible arms of either the good or the bad but it's still 50/50 and that to them is better odds It's Nimbyism on a continental scale but we created it at the end of the day and as Spring approaches the numbers will surely gather on the shoreline of our International neighbours driving the 'out' vote for sure and to be honest there are members that have contributed to this debate that oppose each other's ideas but unilaterally agree that an EU exit is best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jones Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 The same reason a disabled person parks in a disabled bay and has a blue badge! Quite happy to do that though aren't they! It is to help identify them. Help is being offered to these people and complaints about a poxy wristband, unreal, the world has gone mad it really has! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megilleland Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 The flow towards Europe Europe is experiencing the biggest refugee crisis since World War II. Based on data from the United Nations, we clarify the scale of the crisis. A very clear indication of how this crisis is developing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jones Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I will wait for one of our resident lefties to defend this lot in Germany AGAIN. This upsetting footage appears to show a group of young migrants attacking two elderly German men who stepped in because they harassed a girl on the subway Pensioners attacked this time. The full story and video can be found here and in the Telegraph here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I will wait for one of our resident lefties to defend this lot in Germany AGAIN. A-group-of-migrant-men-attacking-two-pensioners-on-the-Munich-subway.jpg This upsetting footage appears to show a group of young migrants attacking two elderly German men who stepped in because they harassed a girl on the subway Pensioners attacked this time. The full story and video can be found here and in the Telegraph here Deport them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Asylum seekers will cost Germany an estimated €50 billion by the end of 2017, a new report has found. The Cologne Institute for Economic Research has found that shelter, welfare and integration will cost Germany €22 billion this year and €27.6 billion next year. Chancellor Angela Merkel is under increasing pressure to reduce the numbers of migrants reaching Germany and voters are increasingly doubtful that the state can tackle the refugee crisis, Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble warned on Monday. The migrant crisis will be Angela Merkel's eventual demise, mark my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I will wait for one of our resident lefties to defend this lot in Germany AGAIN. A-group-of-migrant-men-attacking-two-pensioners-on-the-Munich-subway.jpg This upsetting footage appears to show a group of young migrants attacking two elderly German men who stepped in because they harassed a girl on the subway Pensioners attacked this time. The full story and video can be found here and in the Telegraph here Jeez, we can all find something out there to suit our respective arguments.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpJTZ5Z6Uhs If it's ok to call left-wingers lunatics, it's ok to call you a knuckle-dragging wingnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jones Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Jeez, we can all find something out there to suit our respective arguments.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpJTZ5Z6Uhs If it's ok to call left-wingers lunatics, it's ok to call you a knuckle-dragging wingnut. I don't recall calling anyone a lunatic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I don't recall calling anyone a lunatic? Oh quite right Paul. Thought I was talking to Steve. Easy mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Pitt Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I don't recall calling anyone a lunatic? Just ignore Paul or should I call you a knuckle dragging wing nut? Lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Police raids grab suspects in Islamist terror plot Published: 04 Feb 2016 10:40 GMT+01:00 Police raided addresses in several German states on Thursday morning, making several arrests of people allegedly planning an Islamist terror attack in Germany or elsewhere in Europe. Security sources told DPA the group’s ringleader was a 35-year-old Algerian arrested on Thursday in North Rhine-Westphalia. The man, who was staying in refugee accommodation in the town of Attendorn, was also being sought by Algerian authorities due to a suspected connection to Isis, with whom he is said to have undergone military training in Syria The Local Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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